good match, thanks for the battle man good luck with future bouts

Miticis> Perhaps we should have a rating system for comments as well? Really. No, seriously. Like a \"Was this comment useful to you?\" system. You know what I mean? Critique is a bit of an art as well and I think we all would benefit from learning to improve or critique.
You know, concerning the lack of useful comments on some battles, you have to remember that giving proper critique takes effort, too. Given the high number of defaults in battles we see here at times, I don\'t think it\'s all that strange that there\'s a lot of defaults in the critique department as well. It\'s all about priorities. That\'s the way it is. Here\'s to hoping to break the mold. Cheers!

Grain of salt gents, grain of salt.

I haven\'t been around Void long, but I\'ve been around a critique environmnet for a long time (Minneapolis College of Art and Design), and I have a sence for good and bad crituques.

Ego strokes are always nice, and honest critiques are what we all deserve, but is this a crit session, or a vote for favorits?

Correct me if Im wrong, but wouldn\'t you be more willing to listen to what someone has to say about your work if along the way they use a little tact ie; \"these elements were nice, these elements could use some work, heh, have you thought about this?\"

And guys getting and giving the critique:
Its easy for people to say stuff from across the web when they don\'t have to speak to the person face to face, but all critique, from every venue, be it the classroom, a boardmeeting, or a web forum is strongly baced on opinion. Take it or leave it. It doesn\'t do any good to argue a point from the recieving end, all it does is provoke more argument and convince poeple that you can\'t take crituques.

As far as how I voted, well, I based it on my initial reaction as well as quality of finished pages. How did the story firm up in the amount of time it took to tell it in both page numbers and how the content resolved the conflict? Thats what I tried to keep in mind.

I envite you to critique my first battle: Sydney VS Lenia Conrad, so far, all Ive gotten are a few spastic utterings, so please have at. Id appriceat the input.

Until I see you across the battlelines,
Miticis

dont take it personal, i see what yall are saying, honestly for entertainment and creativity i can see you giving me whatever you want. I merely look at quality different. Id give a comic of just pencils with good skills more than a \"finished\" comic with loads errors. but that is my bias, i see its not the way yall think of things, and thats really fine. simply means that if i get any more challenges i spend less time on the pencils and more time on inks/scanning/colors whatever. Artists tend to not like crits but i listen to em and weigh them, though,t really telling me to get a better scanner/ put more phsop filters on it, to me isnt that useful for improving my art. thats not my art thats merely post process.

To make it clear I like the crits. I probably come off as bitching, but im the type of dude who is gonnas tate my opinion regardless. I wasnt telling anyone to suck my dick for knowing anatomy. I just wanted to figure out whether you had a problem with my ART or you had a problem with my scans. And if you basically say i suck, hey i may, i wont lie i got a number of things to improve on, but expect me to say ok, show me why i suck. Expect me to question you. And expect me to ask you to back it up if you say im trash.
Btw dont lump me with aztek, im the one doing most of the \"bitching\" here. and Yeah if ya think my stuff is boring weak. sketchy you should definately say so.

And i have no matches so on a match note, i currently am up for any type of challenge. wouldnt mind a scar trohpy or deathmatch to spice things up (this is not a challenge to anyone specific merely an announcement)

love and peace

What are you talking about? And why in the hell are u mad? lol

I dont care if I get F\'s in this thing, I have other priorities that mean a lot more than some battle on the net. The only reason I did this is because I was challenged, If I werent getting paid to draw then I might have put some more effort into this but since I had to do this in my spare time (I already draw all day I dont wanna draw in my spare time) it just needed to be done. I have nothing to prove here, just accepted a battle and pretty much drew a 4 pager that is chill wit me. If u dont like it then give it a damn F.

Here\'s some harsh truth\'s for you two since you\'re both pissing me off, listen closely cause all us veteran fighters had to learn this the hard way:

A half finished fight will only recieve half of what it deserves, it can be in a cartoony style, it can be finished pencils, it can be whatever the fuck you two want it to be, but if it isn\'t finished, you have a very low chance of winning! We won\'t change votes just because you feel like you deserve class A scores for your oh so perfect anatomy, that\'s only part of the quality score yo! Oh, BTW: Page count doesn\'t matter too much, but what does matter is what\'s in those pages, so shut the fuck up about the page count!

Voting on each and every fight is a matter of your skills compaired to anothers! We won\'t suck your dick and praise you like on deviantart, we at void will tell you what\'s wrong and pick it appart piece by piece until you get it right! Quality, Entertainment, and Creativity! Those are the things that matter in a comic! Take Hiemie and Kure for example: Both have a rather cartoony style, but they\'re able to listen to us and fix things in there next fights so that they can make it look professional! They make the comics intresting and fun to read, what kind of scores do you think they get? All C\'s?

But you two want class A scores right? All 9\'s and 8\'s across the board? Well then I suggest you all shut up and get to fighting! You guys now know that comics like this won\'t win us over, we expected better from you two, and you\'d better deliver next time! Otherwise, you\'re gonna end up the butt of alot of jokes, trust me! But if you prefer arguing on the comment box and insist this is the best damn comic we\'ve ever seen; by all means, go right ahead and argue. My votes are still the same.

hmm well go for it if ya feel that way. best way to shut some one up is to defeat them probably

Um...sure. Whatever.

I suppose it\'s nice you care more about my characters than your own...I suppose.

Not really. It\'s annoying that you think you\'ll alwyas win. When I have time, maybe I\'ll challenge you...maybe a week time limit too.

Ok so you dont want to that fine, and yeah i can draw in other styles i wouldnt have a problem drawing in a cartoony style. But its best you dontbattle because though i wouldnt mind if jah lost in a fair fight, i dnt really want to kill of your character, so consider the battle withdrawn. Unless of course you want to challenge me to a match i accept all match types. preferably short drawing times, im trying to increase speed/pressure

Besides if anyone is gonna kill my characters it\'s the Crazy Samurai!

I\'m flattered that you want to have a death match so early as you and I are both new to Void City. However two problems come to mind in a DM setting.

One: I don\'t draw like you. The Baglady is best suited for battling Nny than a martial artist from a 2D fighter. I don\'t draw muscled macho guys and have no desire to. Until I get paid of course. I\'ve already stated you can do something I cannot, partly because I have no desire to.

Two: I love this character. I have big plans for her, and you should have big plans for yours. I\'ve written three storys and have many more knocking at my brain to escape. I\'m not ready to loose. Therefore you ask too much of me to steal my character over some comments. Besides, why would the Baglady fight your guy? I cannot think of a reason. Therefore, not worth it.

However, a regular battle maybe. Nothing on the line. Or maybe a scar battle. But not a death match. This sounds like I can\'t back up my shit but I don\'t care. And yea, the Wildstorm comment was a little harsh, but you can\'t make me impressed with what I do not like. And I scored both of you very fairly...I don\'t score anything lower an a C maybe even a B.

The story I have in mind for The Baglady is Lynch pinned on Paige, by Lexy and of course Ashes. So like the others, I\'m too busy for a DM.

Sorry for the bruised ego man, prove me wrong is all I\'m saying, I want you too.

-BP

An idea occured to me. Thanks to all people who voted commented. dislike or not your opinion is information or feedback that its good to have. I must admit the average wildstorm on a bad day kinda got me, maybe true, I dunno regardless im gonna be trying to improve.

That said, My chr is willing to live or die on my drawings story telling whatevr you want to call it. Is your charachter willing to do the same mr berlin? cause i been fishing for a deathmatch and people been busy. How about you show me how to do this? Same deal as this battle a 2 weeker you up for it? And na i\'m not angry, im not out to get you, its just a battle, punch gloves and come out swinging, if you want this is your chance to rid teh world of a cheeseball lackluster charachter.

If ya feel my art is average comic book artist level then hey your right to give it an average rating. But if you then turn around and give people with bad anatomy, screwy perspective lackluster form and just as unfinished/scratchy work 8s and 9s then your saying that we arent on teh same scale. As far as the wtf, honestly i was pretty much on a time limit, and i found it amusing. You didnt its understandable. ANyhow vote what you feel, information is information. i may submit an inked version just to see if its really my lines or the scan that was the problem.

The only way youll get 10 pages from me is if you challenge me to do 10 pages. 4 pages was the challenge and I never do more than im asked too. If its too short thats not my problem.

physic> Well, I have to say, I\'m not much of an expert on chokes and such—I usually just use swords to beat my opponents to pulp.  Anyhow, what I was referring to as being Xena-esque is the calmly but comfortingly telling your opponent you\'re depriving their brain of oxygen or whatever. It\'s lame. Sorry if I\'m unable to put it better into words for you—we\'re all learning here. As for your quality, it\'s not your scans or photoshop filters that bring it down for me. It\'s the fact that the art looks messy and unfinished at times. There\'s a lot of lines in there that shouldn\'t be there anymore when you turn in your work. You could\'ve cleaned up after yourself a bit more. That and you could\'ve shown a bit more care with the placement of your text. I don\'t even mean page 6, where there\'s no balloons—I actually like the way that looks. I\'m talking about the way you\'re letting your text get clipped on page 1 and 5. That just looks careless.

Aztekh> Hey, I\'m glad you appreciated my commentary. I always try to throw in some of the good, the bad and the ugly, but often I\'m not sure if I come out positively constructive enough. Thanks for letting me know—I appreciate that.

Berlin Poe> Dude, WTF?!      

I\'d like to take this time to say sorry for the meanness of my rant.

You guys really are talented, that\'s why it hurts me to see this. Get some writers and make complete comics and you both will have work.

You are both talented, I don\'t want you all to feel like I shit on you...just this fight.

physic- I dunno. I see the sketches of a pretty average comic book. Wildstorm on a bad day. Not impressed, but I can\'t fail you since you are able to draw muscle-guys and I\'m not. If this was finished the quality would have beaten Aztekh but it\'s not done. If you have a good plan and are making the challenge it seems to me you could have had a longer time line and gotten this done. I\'m not entertained by this blue pencil stuff. I dunno what\'s going on really. But this goes back to it not being finished. Also not terribly creative, dude gets drunk dude starts a fight. . .I dunno. Everyone has a point about the dialoge coming from Andres.

Aztekh- Not hard to beat a guy who isn\'t finished so not to let you get cocky, you comic is pretty dull. To be continued on any comic makes me drop it a grade. Don\'t tell me your going to pick this up because I have already stopped caring. You could\'ve done the whole ten pages if there was more to tell, five pages to be continued is a cop out. Ten pages full of content and battles AND a to be continued on a cliff hanger is interesting. You knocked the guy out...I\'m not on the edge of my seat to see what happens to the random clerk.

Both- Seriously, you can\'t make room for the words \"What the fuck\"? WTF? God fuck both of you for insulting the intellegnce of you audience. I\'m not at all happy with the \"WTF\" I hope I only ever see it in the porper context, making fun of the internet or exceptionally thick characters. WTF. Goddamnit.

i guess i underestimated art quality in terms of the actual pencils, having it inked/colored apparently worth more. As far as Azteks shortness, hey it was a 4 page battle he agreed to doing, so to count that against him to me is kind of ehhh. I\'m sure his descion to accept was based on how much time he had and how many pages were needed. If you feel it wasnt creative or entertaining that your opinion understandably

 Personally though if I could vote I\'d have given aztek a 9 for art a 6 creativity and a 7/8 for entertainment. Personaly im surprised his quality and entertainment are so low. How i\'d have scored myself is too subjective for me to comment, though I had hoped that the quality of your scans/and photoshop filters wouldnt so largely impact my quality rating

I think when you guys vote yall shouldnt so much try to determine a winner as much as just grade the fight, When i think like that it leads to giving peoples grades based on thier opponents rather than what their fight really rates. To me the win is less important than the grades, because that actually shows you where you stand and how people feel about your stuff. So if ya vote a 6 on creativity understand your saying its \"ok\". not just that it was not as good as the dude. If you think some ones art was very good, why would ya only give it an 8? keep in mind when you give out 5s who else you gave 5s to and how that compares to teh people you gave 9s.

sorry for the long rant, thanks for the fight Aztek, it was fun, i enjoyed your pages, as i enjoyed doing mine. regardless it was good testing and practice.Thanks for the people with the explanations, nice ya take time to say what you actually think of the stuff, and thanks for the time

I was looking forward to this, and I definitely wasn\'t disappointed.  Good job to both of you on your first matches and welcome to Void.  My laundry list is different from most, though...

physic- It\'s too bad your comic wasn\'t finished, but I enjoyed actually reading yours over your opponent\'s.  Your art was solid and conveyed the goings-on even though it wasn\'t finished.  I also found the action choreography to be very strong and well-done, if a little stiff at times.  There\'s not enough actual grappling in Void, but it was nice to see a flying RN choke (of all moves) applied in a comic.  My votes go to you--and I\'ll explain that further in just a second.

Aztekh- Lookin\' good, your art reminded me of an old Joe Madureira comic.  But therein lies the problem: it reminded me too much of Joe Madureira work from the late \'90s.  Physic\'s held my attention more since his style is something I haven\'t seen before.  Nothin\' against your work--you\'re good at what you do, but it\'s just too familiar to me.  In terms of writing, there was no struggle, no drama, no heart--Andres KOs Jah Basil with one big punch after some shit-talk.  Pretty pictures didn\'t hold my attention or my interest.

Votes go to Basil for creativity and entertainment, making him take the majority of my votes.

Ok, new guys are looking good, but... B-U-T

Physic: Pretty good comic from the looks of it, got a decent story and plenty of action, however the unfinished quality just looked awful, you\'ve got text cut in half (how is that even possible anyway?), and panels sometimes go from red to blue for some strange reason. Props for the good looking art, but you can have an almost perfect comic here on void, but if it\'s half finished, it might not win. However, story won me over on this and my vote goes to you.

Aztekh: Well, artwise you would of won this, however... this is amazingly boring! We just see your fighter acting like an ass, and then win with one punch... YAWN! We really don\'t expect you to do what everybody else here has done and do 10-20 page epics, but we do expect a decent comic to read. Anywho, artwise you would of had my vote, but storywise: I honestly think you should do something better next time.

Number of pages says 4... so I did 4.  

the Falcon- lol. I just got some issues I need to vent with, I\'ll try and keep others peoples characters in character next time. Good looking out on your in-depth crit. appreciate it

not bad, on either accounts, both are good, but each have probles, Phsic\'s is too slaped together, its got good story though, Aztekh\'s is very well drawn, and has a nice comicbook feel to it, but its Waaay too Short.

I must admit im surprised my art is so low rated. Anyhow regarding teh blood choke, yeah its a pretty easy real move. Unless you mean the stuff before the blood choke was xena-esque.

what\'s cliche about it?  It\'s at least a legitimate move, not just random kicks and punches.
Fact is that you do have two arteries on the side of the neck.  It\'s an easy choke out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chokehold#Blood_choke

physic> Looking good, dude, looking good. Real shame about the clipped text, though. More importantly, I have issues with the words you put into Andres\'s mouth. Maybe I\'m wrong, but to me this guy seems to come straight outa Aztec City and is only a recent arrival to The States. Yet, in your comic, he\'s spewing saying stuff like \"fubar\" and \"nigga\". I don\'t know, but that just doesn\'t seem to really fit the character to me. Further, I find the action in the fifth panel on page six kinda cliché. It reminds me a lot of the bullshit Xena pulls on her opponents and that\'s already cliché. Anyhoo, it\'s too bad you didn\'t finish it. I think the action was pretty good. It could\'ve been awesome. Good luck with better planning next time.

Aztekh> That\'s some pretty awesome art you\'ve got there. Good work, dude. Some minor quibbles, though. First, page 2, last panel: Does this dude walk on his toes or something? That just doesn\'t look like a guy stepping into a store to me. Could\'ve been better. Second, the \"WTF!\"–\"Wait your fuckin\' turn, Pedro.\" It just seems out of character to me for Jah Basil. I didn\'t get the impression from his bio nor his intro that he\'s a rampant racist redneck or anything like that. Finally, it just seemed to easy, the way he defeated Jah. Though, I have to say, the execution was brilliant, so points for that. All in all, yeah, you\'re keeping it real, but you could be a bit more creative, too. Still, your pictures won me over: you\'re the winner, dude.

No time to do an epic story. Just keeping it real.


Good shit physic.

Physic- Sad you didnt finish, it looked promising.

Aztekh- Looked cool, but that was ubersuper uncreative.

damn, i didnt get to put text or properly scan most the pages, especially the last.but, i think my pencils were decent, i enjoyed the battle, i shouldnt have underestimated turnaround time from pencils to the rest. cant wait to see this

I guess that makes you Michelangelo then Rax, haha. Let\'s see a good bout fellers. I\'m highly anticipating it.

Isnt that usually how it goes? the guys with the most talent are usually the laziest bastards.

The designs of these guys look VERY promising. I am damn curious about the qualities of the fights.
Good luck!

This better be nothing  but awesome.

Bout time you guys fought.

heh well no guarantee either of us wont make it about humor. Not my plan anyhow. Thanks for the accept aztekh. This shoudl be interesting.

I look foward to seeing an actual fight, its rare that i see a battle that isnt about humor or comedy around here.  I cant wait for this.