[A Bad Idea]

WARNING!
This is a super-ginormous post! But do not feel discouraged! For there are contents aplenty to help you! It's like getting large fries instead of medium fries but eating the rest of the large fries anyways!

I would like to again thank everyone who's participated in the Tridimensional Character form thread, and I am glad to know that people are using the form to better understand their characters. So, seeing the success of that thread, I'd like to take the next step into conceptual writing: Understanding and Identifying Character Archetypes.

RIGHT OFF THE BAT, I must tell you that ARCHETYPES AND STEREOTYPES ARE NOT THE SAME THING! Stereotypes are often opinionated exagerrations of popular trends as far as characters go, archetypes are basic outlines and framework for which a character fits into a story. Archetypes help us understand how a character functions in a story without going into the meat of the detail, just the outline.

As prime examples of character archetypes, I will be primarily pulling references from the easiest story to understand ever (Star Wars), Evan Dahm's Rice Boy, and our very own VOID characters in case you don't catch the other references (but if you were unfamiliar with Star Wars, then you were born in the WRONG GENERATION =|). Other references may arise, thus a short description thereafter shall suffice for those who don't pick up on the note.

Here are the archetypes in summary:

(SUPER IMPORTANT NOTE: Don't take these literally! You can have other things represent these archetypes without them even being real characters!)

(THIS TOO, IS A SUPER IMPORTANT NOTE: Rice Boy is the creation of Void's very own Mr. Robot, and is a wonderful example of the things I will discuss. If you have not read Rice Boy, then you are not with the Awesome Club. BUT IF YOU CLICK HERE, YOU WILL BE AWESOME.)

I. THE HERO - The protagonist, who sets out upon a Call to Adventure (explained in next lecture); functions as a window to the audience, and the martyr of change, which is always present in a traditional hero.


in Star Wars: Luke Skywalker is a traditional hero; a farmboy who, by chance, receives Princess Leia's distress call, has his home destroyed, then sets off on an adventure.
in Rice Boy: Rice Boy is a traditional hero; a humble, limbless creature who is visited by T-O-E with a prophecy, and sets out on good faith towards adventure.
in VOID: Jimmy Boom (by Kinuchio) is a traditional hero in every sense of the term. A fiery youth who uses his gifts to fight for peace and the defense of the weak.

-- THE ANTI-HERO - An alternate branch of HERO, the ANTI-HERO (or RELUCTANT HERO) is often tossed into the fray without a choice. In this matter, an Anti-hero is not initially in control of his own fate as a Traditional Hero is. He differs fromt he CYNICAL HERO and the TRAGIC HERO (below) because he is neither seeking self-gain nor is destroyed by his flaws.



from Neon Genesis Evangelion: Shinji Ikari is a modern example of the Reluctant Hero. He never strove to be what he became, but when circumstances arose in which he was to be a hero, he didn't back down. (thanks Pong)
from VOID: Gray (by Animeshen) is a Reluctant Hero, though we use the term 'hero' here lightly. Thrust into incidents she can't control, she is motivated by sheer circumstance. Depending on her character growth, she can evolve into a full-blown Anti-hero, or descend into Tragic Hero territory.
The Pig (by Hiemie) is an extremely vague example of a Reluctant Hero. His story is driven by pure circumstance, until the Shadow (Bad Apple) reveals himself, and is soundly thwarted by The Pig simply being a pig. This is a tough one to analyze, because the Pig doesn't actually exhibit growth, but its very nature pulls it through the story.

--THE CYNICAL HERO - A tarnished, failed hero, or a hero who otherwise lacks heroic qualities. Usually in the adventure for his/her/its own self-gain.


in Star Wars: Han Solo is a cynical hero; a greedy smuggler who is only led into the conflict through the promise of money.
in THE FRIDGE: The Swiss (by GPS-Device) has done away with any notion of prestige or honor he used to possess, and instead is driven to 'do what is right', even if it means soiling his own hands.

-- THE TRAGIC HERO - A hero who fails to develop or adapt, and is ultimately destroyed by his own flaws or inner demons. Oftentimes, a tragic hero, unlike a traditional hero, does not control his own fate; thus, a Tragic Hero may very well be a 'victim of fate', as it were.


in Star Wars: Anakin Skywalker is a tragic hero; a Jedi prodigy who was led astray by jealousy and impatience, and eventually fell to the Dark Side.
in Rice Boy: Spatch I is a tragic hero; when given the prophecy by T-O-E and Calabash, he grew drunk with power, greed and influence, and it led to the corruption of Sunk. (Art by Chunkplex)
in VOID: Jules Saphir (by Video320) is on the way to becoming a Tragic Hero. If his Beyond Battle saga is of any indication, he is driven to slake his thirst for revenge against Andy Heller, even if it costs him his life.

--THE CATALYST HERO - A hero who does not develop, but rather, inspires change in others around him. The lone gunman who strolls into town, saves the day, makes everyone happy, and rides off into the sunset, is a Catalyst hero.


Classic Example: The Toshiro Mifune character, Sanjuro, from Akira Kurosawa's samurai classic Yojimbo is a traditional example of the catalyst hero. He strolls into town, settles the disputes, everyone's happy, and he leaves.
in VOID: Toro Joe (by TINMAN) can be considered a Catalyst Hero, even if he is portrayed as a villain by others (remember, we use the term HERO because Toro Joe is the Hero of his own story). While he shows little development himself, his very presence causes change in others around him.

II. THE MENTOR - Something (doesn't have to be a person) that aids the HERO, by teaching him, giving him 'gifts', protecting him, or introducing him into "The Special World" (will come up in a later lecture).


in Star Wars: Obi-Wan Kenobi is a Mentor; one of the few remaining Jedi Knights who takes Luke under his wing after his home is destroyed.
in Rice Boy: The Tree Keeper is a Mentor; a mystical being who Rice Boy must seek out for more details on the prophecy as told by T-O-E.
in VOID: Dr. Boomington (by Kinuchio) serves as a mentor and guide for the Avant-Guardians. He is also literally Jimmy's father.

III. THE HERALD - Something (see above parenthetical statement) that announces the coming of change, issues challenges to the HERO, and more often than not, delivers the Call to Adventure.


in Star Wars: C3PO and R2-D2 are Heralds; their escape pod crash lands on Tatooine, where they must deliver Princess Leia's distress call. (Note: Heralds are sometimes referred to as 'Masters of Protocol'; C3PO is called a Protocol Droid)
in Rice Boy: The One Electronic (T-O-E) and Calabash are Heralds. They quite literally have to deliver an unknown prophecy to an unknown fulfiller so that the prophecy may be realized, no matter what it is.
in VOID: Cora Ruddel (by Angieness), Angela's mother, is a Herald. She shows up one day and tells Angie that she must return to the Chuchunaa Islands with no context or warning.

IV. THE SHADOW - Something (parenthetical statement above, again) that poses a threat to the HERO, and is often the HERO's greatest adversary, no matter what form it takes. Oftentimes, they represent a force that threatens to destroy. NOTE: Shadows and Villains are NOT THE SAME. If your Shadow is a meteor that threatens to destroy the Earth, it is NOT a villain; there may be a villain who is guiding the meteor, in which case there may be more than one Shadow.


in Star Wars: Emperor Palpatine is a Shadow; a Sith Lord himself, he rules over his corrupt Empire, enforcing the rule of the Dark Side over the galaxy.
in Rice Boy: Spatch II is a Shadow; Corrupted by his late father's misguided mandate, he will go through any measures to ensure that he is the only true Fulfiller
-- In the POV of T-O-E, however, his Shadow, alongside Spatch II, may be the threat of losing immortality, or perhaps even the 'God' figure itself.
in VOID: Angus Blackader (by underwoodwriter) has shown himself to be a formidable Shadow. Commanding an enormous battalion and driven by greed and vanity, Blackader will crush anything in his path to get what he wants.

V. THE THRESHOLD GUARDIAN - Something (parenthetical yet again) that stands to impede the HERO on his journey. This can come in the form of minor villains (or the Shadow's subordinates), puzzles or tests, or any sort of complication. There is oftentimes one standing at the First Threshold (to be explained in later lecture). Because it is such a long title, I often refer to Threshold Guardians simply as 'threshguards'.


in Star Wars: Boba Fett can be considered a Threshguard; he is not a true villain or Shadow, but he stands to impede the heroes in their journey.
in Rice Boy: Similar to Mr. Fett, Golgo can be considered a Threshguard; while he doesn't directly oppose the heroes, he is employed by Spatch II to do so.
In a more literal sense, Bor the Very Large is a very literal Threshguard, in which he stands in Rice Boy's way and makes it difficult to find the Tree Keeper.
in VOID: The entire gang of Murphy's Law can be considered a Threshold Guardian to many. They are an assortment of criminals, pranksters and troublemakers whose sole purpose is to incite chaos and nonsense in the city.

VI. THE SHAPESHIFTER - An entity that frequently changes appearance or alignment, to inspire mystery, confusion or doubt. If a Shapeshifter is present among the HERO's allies, they put loyalty into question and create doubt or suspense. A Shapeshifter may be considered a Homme/Femme Fatale, in that their existence is always a threat, no matter how helpful they may seem. As part of their nature, they can start as either an ally or an enemy, and may end the story wherever it befits them (an ally who turns enemy, and enemy who turns ally, etc.)


in Star Wars: In the Ep.I-III trilogy, Emperor Palpatine played the role of a Shapeshifter for a while; it was not known until Ep.III that he was a Sith Lord, so when he played favors to the young Anakin, the council had doubts about the supposed Supreme Chancellor.
in Rice Boy: The God figure that T-O-E works for may be considered a Shapeshifter; he keeps a lot of things hidden, and often inspires doubt in T-O-E whether or not his job is justified.
in VOID: The Star Child (by MyHatEatsPeople) is shown to take the forms of others, but appears directly to Wizzie Bells in a dream. Her motives are vague and unexplained, but she forces a change in Wizzie, whether or not Wizzie is ready for it.

VII. THE TRICKSTER - A character that defies the status quo; points out the folly and hypocrisy of the world and brings the HERO down to size, often challenging the HERO's right as a hero. Represents the energy of mischief and the desire for change. Are oftentimes a source of (comic) relief or a release of tension, who brings calm and balance to a story that may be getting too tense.

in Star Wars: Han Solo is also a Trickster alongside his Cynical Hero role; oftentimes, the "Whys" are brought on by him, and universal standards are brought into question; to quote Mr. Solo himself, "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."


in Rice Boy: Calabash may be considered a trickster. Unlike T-O-E who took his job seriously, Calabash had the incentive to question the job, even going as far as to defy it.
in VOID: Cue the Anti-Cupid (by Majikura) is a shining example of a Trickster. She will figuratively AND literally question the very nature of VOID City, her opponents, and even the comics she's featured in. Nothing is safe from Cue's cynical brand of humor.

THIS IS AN IMPORTANT THING: A character doesn't have to have the same archetype throughout your entire story! Though it is a basic characteristic of the Shapeshifter archetype to 'change masks', there are times wherein other characters may take up different roles; when Obi-Wan held off Darth Vader so Luke and company could escape, he rose from Mentor to Hero for that brief moment; it didn't take long for Rice Boy to make friends with Gerund, but the fact that Gerund keeps eating all his food makes him a Threshguard of a small scale.

THIS IS ANOTHER IMPORTANT THING: You can mix and match archetypes! There's no reason you can't have two things at once! In the Star Wars Ep.I-III trilogy, Palpatine is both a Mentor AND a Shadow (a part of his Shapeshifter nature). In Rice Boy, T-O-E may be considered a Herald Hero, because he has his own journey to undertake. Commonly enough, sometimes Void characters who battle each other (Threshguards, in a sense) become friends, and allies are gained.

Now as the case is with Void, your character will automatically default to The Hero (in any of its forms), because in your comics, no matter WHO your character is, YOUR character is the protagonist. Even Crazy Samurai, as villainous as he is viewed by other characters, is the Hero of his story. There may be cases wherein your character serves other purposes (like Rax's Sol; quite obviously, Sol plays the role of Mentor), but in those cases you would mix-match Hero on top of another archetype, keeping within the principle that your character is the main character of your comics (so with the previous example, Sol's comics are still about Sol; thus, he is a Mentor Hero of his story).

YOUR ASSIGNMENT, SHOULD YOU CHOOSE TO TAKE IT
With an understanding of how character archetypes function in a story, I would like you to take your VOID character, think about other characters related to him/her/it, and try to find archetypes that match them. What kind of Hero is your character? Who are his Shadows? Does he have a Mentor? Is there a Herald present? List as many as you can as it relates to your character; I don't want to see a whole bunch of trivial things like "Tying shoelaces in the morning = Threshguard", even if it is true.

I SHALL DO AN EXAMPLE BELOW. COPY THE FORMAT AND FOLLOW IN MY STEAD. YOU CAN DO IT! :mellow:

[Ziggy]

Question: Could T-O-E also count as a cynical hero?

[A Bad Idea]

It's hard to say. He certainly doesn't see himself as a hero, but he's not entirely selfish, as was the case with his partnership with Calabash. Despite how he felt about it, T-O-E took his job seriously, unlike Calabash who had the gall to question their job. If anything, Cal would be the cynic, but Cal isn't exactly a Hero, thus he's a Trickster.

[mr. robot]

this was extremely fun to read, zato, well fucking done. you know more about my comic than i do.

[A Bad Idea]

I'm glad you like it. Rice Boy is for some reason a very fun thing to analyze. =P

[sixtem]

Wow, Zato. This kicked ass. And it helps. A lot. I really hope that you keep doing these Writing exercises, they're entertaining and very helpful.

And I almost spit out my soda when I saw that Ivan was in here, haha. But that fits him damn well. :/ Too bad the delivery of that archtype wasn't done too smoothly.

[King_Pong]

  GVSR is the anti-hero in his story.  I don't want to label him as being a cynical hero because he doesn't know enough about what's going on to be in it for personal gain - and he is not a tragic hero because he does not succumb to his own flaws while attempting to do the heroic thing.  He is the protagonist, but lacks the virtues of a true hero, through his own misguided and bumbling ways he attempts to solve the problems he is faced with.

  Keppler takes the role of the threshold guardian, a shady character from GVSR's worst years in obscurity he occaisionally appears for the sole purpose of getting in GVSR's way.

  Agent Black took the part as the herald in this story, appearing briefly, reviving memories and stirring up some questions and mysteries for GVSR.

  Shin Kansen is the mentor/herald, he appears immediately after Black leaves the scene for the first time - he provides GVSR with some information about Void (to be revealed in the clobberfist fight) but fails to explain his correlation to the problem or what any of it has to do with GVSR - at least as of yet.

J-pop is the trickster, when he shows up things get crazy fast.  His only powers are making microphones appear, and the ability to piss people off really fast.

The streetcars are the most prominent visual representation of the shadow in this story, they serve to symbolize the circustances that are threatening GVSR in a cryptic - but constantly present way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
INTJ takes the place as the tragic hero in his story, he is well aware of his flaws and although not aware of his imminent demise, when it comes he will be aware that his end came from his own flaws. He believes he is doing the right thing even to the very end, and would think of it as a noble cause if he thought that there was anything worth considering "noble" in his world (which he doesn't).

Granville Bradshaw assumes the position of the cynical hero/thresholdguardian.  He believes strongly in bringing down INTJ, and while attempting to convince himself that he is doing it for the good of all humanity, he has underlying personal motives to "solve the case" ~ while vituruous in nature he has many flaws and problems, I'm almost tempted to label him as a Byronic hero. He is the second largest problem INTJ has to face.

Agent A assumes the roles of trickster and threshold guardian, he manages to screw up things for everybody, including himself with every move he makes.

[Majikura]

It seems that Zato fogot to put up Anti-Hero and Catalyst Hero.  Edits will be made.

[(Pi)]

Pye - cynical hero/shapeshifter, shadow to others
He acts behind the scenes, manipulating others in Void City for his own purposes. He has no dreams of saving anybody, and he looks down and just about everyone else. He may act as a mentor or even a trickster, but it is all in pursuit of ulterior motives.

Estrella - Herald/Shadow
She is his ultimate goal, less a sophomoric crush, but more of a religious devotion. His Call to Adventure is to be by her side as an Scion of Death, perhaps even Master. At the same time, however, she is his ultimate obstacle, his end-game. If he cannot prove himself to her, he has failed.

White Jackets, Good Guys, Exiles, Mal's Diner Crew, everyone else who stands in his way - Threshold Guardians
While not minions of Estrella by any means, all of the vigilantes of Void City generally are opposed to Pye's goals and will stop his schemes as they happen. Few understand the significance of his dastardly deeds, but they know he's up to no good.

The Asylum Gang - Threshold Guardian/Shapeshifter
Simultaneously his rivals and his allies, the Asylum is both a resource for Pye and an obstacle, as he must tread carefully when dealing with them to maintain his position.

The Devil's Advocates - Mentor/Shapeshifter
The Advocates are the closest allies Pye has in Void City, and provide a wealth of knowledge in exchange for his share of research. The other members, however, have their own agendas, and may turn on the doctor if it suits their advantage.

If you're wondering about the large number of shapeshifters, it's because people have a very strong tendency to flock towards people similar to themselves, in this case back-stabbers and manipulators. Most effectively put, the treacherous are most fearful of treachery.

[A Bad Idea]

I thought 'Anti-Hero' was just the category in which Cynic Hero and Tragic Hero were placed? I suppose Pong makes a good point of GVSR standing in the grey zone between traditional hero and anti-hero, but I don't think that concept was covered in class? Otherwise it'dve ended up in my notes, which I would have then filtered over onto my post.

And for Catalyst Heroes, I'll dig up some images and post that 'soon as I can.

Pi - I would argue Estrella's position as the Shadow in Pye's story. In romantic stories, it isn't the target of affection that is the Shadow of the protagonist; unless it's a direct, tracable source (such as another character), a romance Hero's Shadow is usually just crummy luck, misunderstanding, or any circumstance that's keeping him from reaching the goal. Remember that the Shadow opposes the Hero, and unless Estrella's openly rejecting Pye, she shouldn't be the Shadow. Let's use an analogy; Pye's courtship to Estrella can be compared to a knight having to slay a dragon to reach the captured princess. The princess isn't what's keeping him from her, it's the dragon. Thus, the Shadow must be designated as the dragon in Pye's path to winning Estrella.

[King_Pong]

The Tragic Hero and the Cynical Hero are simply subtypes the Anti Hero.  An anti hero is simply a protaganist who possesses un-heroic traits and flaws.  If his flaws end up destroying him, then he becomes a tragic hero, if his flaws are the reason he has become a hero (for instance he becomes a rogue agent to satisfy his own personal agenda) then he becomes a cynical hero.  But if he is simply a flawed hero but his flaws do not destroy him, or are not his reason for being a hero then he is simply a "general" anti-hero.  A good example of an anti-hero who is neither tragic, nor a cynic would be Miles Monroe, from the movie Sleeper -  who against his will is forced to become part of an underground movement to overthrow a flawed future government.  While Miles is cynical about his part in overthrowing the government he is not a cynical hero because he has no personal interest in overthrowing the government, he is simply being pushed along by the people around him.  He contains many un-heroic qualities: he's nervous, clumsy, narcissistic, and perverted - but none of these flaws keep him from ultimately reaching the goal of bringing down the government, so he is not a tragic hero.  If you wanted to get specific, Miles is an example of another type of anti-hero, the "reluctant hero" which appears seldomly compared to the two major types.  
Edit: Probably a better known and more recent example of a "reluctant hero" would be Shinji Ikari from Neon Genesis.

[(Pi)]

Pi - I would argue Estrella's position as the Shadow in Pye's story. In romantic stories, it isn't the target of affection that is the Shadow of the protagonist; unless it's a direct, tracable source (such as another character), a romance Hero's Shadow is usually just crummy luck, misunderstanding, or any circumstance that's keeping him from reaching the goal. Remember that the Shadow opposes the Hero, and unless Estrella's openly rejecting Pye, she shouldn't be the Shadow. Let's use an analogy; Pye's courtship to Estrella can be compared to a knight having to slay a dragon to reach the captured princess. The princess isn't what's keeping him from her, it's the dragon. Thus, the Shadow must be designated as the dragon in Pye's path to winning Estrella.

Well, that would be the case if it was a purely romantic dream, but in Pye's case there really isn't a simple case of love sickness. He wants her to acknowledge him as a master of the craft, and wants powers to rival hers. At the same time, he worships her as the epitome of all that he wants and all that he wants to be. He hardly addresses her by name, simply calling her "Lady Death" or "the Goddess." The point of his endgame isn't just to have her, it's to usurp her. In this case, she becomes another obstacle that he must overcome, although in this case he must overcome the obstacle through means other than killing and sequestering out in the middle of limbo.

[James]

i dont really see the whole point of this exercise, so im just going to treat this as a superficial myspace-quiz sort of thing, AND preview the new look n' feel for my upcoming battle


JAMES WARSAW is the main cynical hero but is also a tragic hero in the making. He's obviously only out to set things right for his own accord, and whatever plight VC is having doesn't really phase him. His tragedy is that his own ambitions will most likely end up leaving him dead, or close to it. He recognizes his flawed ambition, but also realizes that it is his greatest strength, and he plans on using it till the end.

AYUMI is a cynical hero, and has aspects of a mentor. She fights for her own ideals, and sticks around James only because she cares for him, but shares his aloof attitude to the world around her. Her mentor side sticks out when she tries to keep James in check, and not having him run straight into something he can't chew.

JOHNNY WARSAW is the shadow. Most of his intentions are unknown, but him destroying James seems to be his only ambition. He's infinitely more ruthless than James, and shows it often.

DUMAS is the trickster. James will be crashing on his couch for a while, and Dumas provides valuable insight to the world according to James. He doesn't care to fight that much, and prefers to stay locked up in his apartment making card castles.

DAN is the shapeshifter and a traditional hero (with just a taste of threshold guardian). With their long history, he helps James, but also the clash between his and James' completely different attitudes and views on the world can makes them brawl from time to time.

AGENT BLACK is the threshold guardian and a herald. He's the first to encounter James after he comes back from Japan, and reopens the story for him just with his presence. Black regards James as just a job, albeit an interesting one, and treats him accordingly.

MAYOR BLEDSOE is another threshold guardian. Though reluctant, he is under the thumb of Johnny Warsaw. He would much rather be running his city without impedement, but knows that he has no choice.

LARRY THE BARTENDER AT TOASTS is just a dude. He is there to give James someone to yell at when the beer is warm. He is also never actually seen.

[Majikura]

I'm assuming this is just the first step to understanding the Hero's Journey, starting with archetypes and identifying them.  Once Zato gets to going through the stages this may be more meaningful.


Pong - Agreeable.  General Anti-hero fits it best.

Pi - The main point of the Shadow is that the Shadow does everything in thier power to thwart the Hero.  In your case, Estrella is not the Shadow, Pye's ambition is.  The constant battle he has is with his own high expectations of himself.  In that case Estrella is a Threshold Guardian, a hurdle in his race to become all powerful.

 I would also comment on the "Good groups" of void being threshold guardians when he hasnt even met half of them.  In fact, your choice to select groups in general is a bit off from what this asignment is looking for.  Threshold guardians are neutral forces or minions of the shadow that get in the way of the Hero.  Even though Veronica has run in with the Exiles on few occasions, they still are not threshold guardians to her.  Such is the same principle here.  Pye hasnt even met them, and I dont think he'd go out of his way to defeat them either.  As i said earlier, they aren't threshold guardians if the Hero can ignore them.

Last thing.  The Asylum and Devil's Advocates' importance to Pye.  By grouping the Asylum and the DA into a faceless gang you you lessen thier importance in the story.  Since they are a group of specific people with defining features, they cannot be considered like the VCPD who can be represented by a bunch of faceless VCPD NPC's.  Pick out who in those groups are particularly influencial to Dr. Pye.

James -  I know this is from your upcoming Agent Black fight so I'll point out that since this is James's comic from his point of veiw, there shouldn't be three heros.  James is the main focus of the story here, so Ayumi and Dan aren't considered heros, unless you're writing a three chapter thing where the POV switches to Ayumi and Dan.  You do address a point that was not covered by Zato.  Shapeshifters arent always allies who happen to be enemies, they can be enemies that become allies, Such is the case with Dan.  One last thing, If Larry the bartender is so unimportant then why did you even mention him?

[A Bad Idea]

Excellent points all around, I'll make edits as soon as possible. If I still had Karma to toss around, know that you'll have gotten some from me. BUT ALAS I AM NOT A KARMA BUDDHA! =O

James: The point of the exercise is to be able to identify archetypes and understanding their function in a story. It's like picking colors to paint a painting; you're not gonna break out the hot pink paint if you're painting an ocean scene...unless there are hot pink jellyfish that require attention. Sometimes looking at how your characters are constructed lets you understand the feel of your story; for instance, in Kura's example, he has a LOT more shapeshifters than are present in a traditional story. That's because his story revolves around deception, lies and betrayal.

SO! Things to add: General Anti-Hero, Catalyst Hero, Updated Shapeshifter Description

[Marley]

One last thing, If Larry the bartender is so unimportant then why did you even mention him?

beeeecause its FUNNY!

[James]

kura: i fully believe you can have more than one hero in a story, as long as it is a character-driven piece and not so much plot-driven. the main difference between the two is that every character in character-driven stories are treated as their own heros, not just what the 'main' person perceives them to be, and aren't just there to move along a plot. each character has his own life, ambitions, stories, and even though they may not be focused on for more than one scene, they are still a hero in their own right. i know you can say the same about that last sentence for plot driven characters, but its all in the way that they are treated.

example: theres a scene in my comic where james gets up, takes a shower, then goes to get a drink, leaving ayumi back at the apartment by herself asleep. in a character driven piece, you could have ayumi get up, make some tea, and have her talk about whatevers on her mind, exploring her character more. you would never do this in a plot driven story, because it would serve no purpose to the encompassing plot. im not saying that i HAVE this particular scenario in my fight (cus its right at the beginning and wouldnt work for me pacing-wise), but the option is still there.

i suppose that's why i didn't really get into this excercise that much, cus im more into that kind of thing than anything else. there's something more interesting to me about fitting a story around the characters than fitting the characters around the story. i do see its merits for more plotty writers though, so i endorse this excercise FULLY. it's just apples and oranges for me.

Sometimes looking at how your characters are constructed lets you understand the feel of your story; for instance, in Kura's example, he has a LOT more shapeshifters than are present in a traditional story. That's because his story revolves around deception, lies and betrayal.

that is an excellent point, but the only gift i have to give you for it is... BAD KARMMAAAAAA!!!!!!

[James]

and larry the bartender is fucking rad!!!!!

[King_Pong]

Supposing Larry never dies or develops he would be like the archetypal "wedge" character.  A background character who never develops or has any important part in a story, but is present throughout a story is known as a wedge character.  He may not have any important reason for being mentioned in the story, but that is yet another archtype - although probably the least important kind.

[(Pi)]

Pi - The main point of the Shadow is that the Shadow does everything in thier power to thwart the Hero.  In your case, Estrella is not the Shadow, Pye's ambition is.  The constant battle he has is with his own high expectations of himself.  In that case Estrella is a Threshold Guardian, a hurdle in his race to become all powerful.

 I would also comment on the "Good groups" of void being threshold guardians when he hasnt even met half of them.  In fact, your choice to select groups in general is a bit off from what this asignment is looking for.  Threshold guardians are neutral forces or minions of the shadow that get in the way of the Hero.  Even though Veronica has run in with the Exiles on few occasions, they still are not threshold guardians to her.  Such is the same principle here.  Pye hasnt even met them, and I dont think he'd go out of his way to defeat them either.  As i said earlier, they aren't threshold guardians if the Hero can ignore them.

Last thing.  The Asylum and Devil's Advocates' importance to Pye.  By grouping the Asylum and the DA into a faceless gang you you lessen thier importance in the story.  Since they are a group of specific people with defining features, they cannot be considered like the VCPD who can be represented by a bunch of faceless VCPD NPC's.  Pick out who in those groups are particularly influencial to Dr. Pye.

Hmm, you bring up a lot of good points. After thinking about it a lot, I don't believe I've got a long enough story running on Void to be able to do this exercise effectively. Desipte all my talk and ambitions, I really haven't gotten involved in any major story arcs. I think it's about time that changed.

[Phill]

Now that I read this thing, I kinda see a small problem, although it's easily corrected over time: You can't get very indepth with this unless you've got a storyline going on or have one planned in the future.

It does hoever make me want to get into this topic and get a bit more indepth with my battles and storylines in the near future

[Krissy]

Okay so. We take our characters and perhaps other characters involving our battles and see how they place in the different archetypes. I got it. Sounds fun. This is something I will do later.

[luniara]

Okay- I'm going to try this...

: Lune is the Anti-Hero. Even though she is teamed up with the White Jackets, she doesn't see herself fit to save anyone- especially since she can't even save herself sometimes. Despite how reluctant she can be- she still finds herself helping those in need.

: Galvo is the Mentor. From the moment Lune arrived in Void City- he took her under his wing and has been showing her the ropes around the city ever since. He makes sure she doesn't get into situations too deep, and is always her helping hand.

: Fushigi is the Herald. Being the one Lune is assigned to moniter, Fushigi counteracts her attempts to observate. Each time they meet, Fushigi leaves Lune questioning the path she's headed on.

: Ayumi is the Shapeshifter. Though she has come to aid Lune many times, and was also a fellow member of the Carp Bombers- Lune often doubts her relationship with Ayumi. Her additude leaves Lune wondering if she is truely a rival or a friend.

: P2 is the Mentor/Herald. The one who brought Lune into the White Jackets. He ushers her into keeping peace within Void City and brings more challenges into her life.

: Cog is the Shadow. The moment Lune joined up with the White Jackets- he came into the picture, and threatens her very being in the White Jackets while he creates a mockery of them through his group Hazard Theatre.

: Whoa/Hazard Theatre are the Threshguardians. Being associated with Cog- they also pose a threat to Lune.

: James is the Trickster. From the moment they met, he has been a road of random confusion for Lune. Though his current activities in void are almost unknown to her, she has always found humor in his disgusting, lazy and random way of life.

BLEH- I guess that would be it for now. I hope I did it right. =(

[jho]

jj arc:


jonatela japaleno
an anti-hero in her own story, her mission is just to keep surviving and constantly moving, without any real goal, making her probably a herald as well. She's originally a really nice and good person but after a while she just couldn't give a damn anymore. Everything she does, even good ones, are prolly just something she does to get the obstacles out of the way. She survives on her logic (albeit sometimes twisted), and not many people can change her mind. That's the way she goes, mates!

Maria Keritin aka  Melissa
A shadow and a bit of shapesifter who with unknown reasons (for now) intentionally and falsely convicted j.j of a murder case, thus drove her away from her city. Maria/Melissa was j.j acquintance, and was very very interested in her rubbery power, but suddenly backstabbed her with very very unknown reasons. Currently is tracking down j.j without her knowing it. Smart, cunning and influential, everything she does, she never directly do it herself.(first appearance: j.j's intro). She'll appear in the future as a prominent figure.

Sir Mario
Mentor. Currently he's the person who's able to keep up with j.j whereabouts and giving her various jobs as he sees fits. He also taught her a thing or two about surviving on streets. Probably the only person who's able to give j.j a sense of regularity for a short while, at least.

Dumas
 A trickster. He's probably the only person so far who can make j.j questions her own logic. If j.j is a fucking steel, Dumas is the corrosive acid or something liquidy and fluid (him) as opposed to something more hard and permanent (j.j). Thus she's curious and have some interests in him (borderline one-sided crush! d'aww). But it has been a while since the last time they meet since she moves around alot! Not like she knows what to say OR do if she meets him again anyway.


Cock rockers
 ALL OF THEM ARE SHAPESHIFTERS (or trickster) in j.j's world. she doesn't know if they're enemies or allies, but they're around anyways causing trouble or helping her in some way or another and j.j doesn't know how the fuck she ended up with them (reason: because I say so haw haw), but she somehow sticks with them cause they don't care much and she prefers it that way (she's free to move around and come back).

iri's arc coming later

[blackfiredragon]

I have a book on character creation so alot of this is a nice review, but i have a question that the book hasnt answered. Can an event be classified as a herald?  For example in Jira's case he was thrown into the complex mess that he is now if Nina hadnt been killed. Co would Nina be his herald, or would the act of her being shot surfice?