actually I get in trouble for writing crits a lot

actually I get in trouble for writing crits a lot
« on: Aug 10, 2021, 11:30 AM »
yeesh
« Last Edit: Aug 14, 2021, 10:32 AM by snager »

Re: actually how to write a critique around here
« Reply #1 on: Aug 14, 2021, 04:24 AM »
?



Re: actually I got in a fight over a critique again
« Reply #2 on: Aug 14, 2021, 10:31 AM »
oh, good, Cy, you're here already. Continued from https://entervoid.com/comic/7361 heavyweight 2021

can't relate to why someone would enter big events then like, not follow through . but it wasn't exactly HALF the community who had a poor showing at least once this past year, was it? if so, my pointing it out isn't the problem

how is it remotely an insult to point out that about one fourth the final submissions for about half the community events since I joined have had artists, who were usually  vetted by committee, either default or submit a few pages of early pencils?

I know I'm not the only one who is envious whenever the chosen artists are submitted and I'm not the only one who gets confused when such coveted memberships in contests seem to be undervalued by the members.

I was merely pointing out that Rikun deserves some recognition for making time for his submission, because I know he has been trying to get into one of these things for ages and even though he was busy with life and school, he didn't over burden himself and still had a good showing.

I've been asked before to stop comparing people because it makes them feel bad to be compared to others. but this is 'compare your art to other artists' the web page the hangout dot com. If I had read Rikun’s submission without knowing what everyone else had done here and all year, I would have been less forgiving. It MATTERS what all the other artists are doing.

it's just an opinion at the end of the day. but at the same time I can see how writing a banger serious review for the one person who asked for one might negate trying to honor the other artists' requests to not receive serious crit. But I feel the silence says more than anything.

so, how can I rate anyone's art and comics if I'm not comparing them to the others in the very same contest? everyone was chosen based on a similar skill level, so it was a fair fight, right?

compare their showings to their individual past work?

That's What I Did. Except for Anteres because I had never heard of them and wanted to be surprised. It was a wonderful experience, going in totally blind.

so maybe I should try not to compare everyone's art to their old showings. for example, most of these artists usually spring for full color. should I have then felt their art had declined?

no. because no one else in the current CONTEST did full color.

ok. so we're not comparing people's art to their old art, because that would be unfair as they all chose to put energy into the art in a way that would allow them to compete with each other on other more fundamental points.

But yet we're also not judging it as a contest between these 8 individuals because that would be ‘putting someone down to compliment someone else.’

so I should just look down into my kokoro and imagine the best art possible for this contest and view every turnout as up against that?
no, that would be the most unfair of all.

to imagine everyone out here reading these comics being magically objective in a 'the supreme court of justices as represented by AI' kind of way is unrealistic. Our opinions are all informed by past experiences, knowledge, our own skillset and everything we know about the artists.

I write my reviews having read backlogs on old void, read the artists' old comics and having read professional work outside of void and having a background in fine art. I can tell when someone cut corners because they were in a contest and view these contests as counter productive to creating good art and I always have. but as a performative piece, the contest makes sense. everyone was participating in this big living creature with interconnected parts, and I write my reviews for battles not just on everyone's individual merits, but on how their individuality affected the whole turn out.

in my mind, this is the only fair way to view these royales, battles and tournaments.

I’m sorry if my way of writing serious crit for artists who request it counters their opponents’ requests for gentler reviews or compliments only. But this is why we put things behind spoiler bars.
That’s somehow not enough? And then what? Just not write honest reviews? Don’t leave comments at all? DM my reviews to the artists on discord to avoid hurting their opponents’ feelings?
I put a lot of energy into reading these stories, learning about the characters and their artists, reading about void and participating as much as I can. I thought long and hard about the first 7 entries before moving on to the longest, final entry. When I wrote my review, I was proud of it. I thought it would be fun for the other readers and helpful to the artists, even if they didn’t read anything but their own review. I’m pretty disappointed that at least one person HATED it, after I spent two hours writing it.
But I am an artist too and I know how much it hurts to not get enough praise. I try to put no more than 50% negativity into my crits and comments and put a positive spin on even negative things.
I’ve decided to step out of the personal bubble of this community for a while. Maybe it is correct to divorce artist from artwork.


Re: actually I get in trouble for writing crits a lot
« Reply #3 on: Aug 14, 2021, 12:24 PM »
This may not be how you meant it, but it feels like you're saying, "unless you know your schedule 100% for sure, including unforeseen occurrences, don't bother signing up for events." Calling out that people are not submitting, or not submitting completed comics, can easily make people feel like they've failed on a voluntary website.

You don't have to point out that a lot of artists have defaulted this year, you could have just said to Rikun, 'hey, what you did turn in was good, especially for having been busy' and left it without the comparison.

Re: actually I get in trouble for writing crits a lot
« Reply #4 on: Aug 14, 2021, 07:08 PM »
snager, you missed the point hard. I don't think there's a problem with comparing people, because you're right, being a competition site people are fundamentally being compared to each other and scored accordingly. I don't think you should be dishonest in comments so as to not hurt people's feelings either. I'm certainly not known for gentle critique. I've been roasted several times for criticising people's lack of time management and/or self control, which to me are the only invalid reasons for incomplete comics or defaults (like Snowy said, life can get in the way sometimes and you can't fault people for that).

But that isn't what you did. You didn't identify the reason for incompletion or suggest a solution. You've felt the need to bring up the fact that people are doing what you consider "poor work", repeatedly, on at least 3 major events now. You didn't even direct this comment at the artists in question, but in a backhanded compliment buried under a spoiler crit for a different artist. How is that helpful to anyone?

"so many poor showings this past year from so many artists" is not a critique. It is rubbing salt in the wound.
« Last Edit: Aug 14, 2021, 07:13 PM by TheCydork »



Re: actually I get in trouble for writing crits a lot
« Reply #5 on: Aug 14, 2021, 09:04 PM »
Circumstances does not equate to artist potential.

Yeah, there is a higher standard expectancy when entering in high stakes competitions, but, you know, we're all doing this for free.
« Last Edit: Aug 14, 2021, 09:14 PM by CandycornRhino »

Re: actually I get in trouble for writing crits a lot
« Reply #6 on: Aug 16, 2021, 09:18 AM »
I'm also writing these big reviews for free, even though some people pay real money to have serious crit and some publishers print serious reviews and pay the author to write  them.
you're acting like i'm some crazed entitled fan instead of a member of the community on equal footing as everyone else. and I am a fan of everyone here and my reviews are not 100% professional. but

i'm just not sure how to write crits or reviews that are literally a re-view of everything and literally a critical take.

Re: actually I got in a fight over a critique again
« Reply #7 on: Aug 17, 2021, 03:54 AM »
I've been asked before to stop comparing people because it makes them feel bad to be compared to others. but this is 'compare your art to other artists' the web page the hangout dot com. If I had read Rikun’s submission without knowing what everyone else had done here and all year, I would have been less forgiving. It MATTERS what all the other artists are doing.

In regards to comparing artists, I think the most elegant way to do this is through how you vote on the comics.
When it comes to call-outs and comparisons in a written crit things can get messy, it's important to step back and ask yourself "is this additional jab necessary? Does this further my point? Will help the person I'm critting improve?"
aka referencing another artist to show a superior example to x skill, makes sense.
But, anything outside of this is likely going to come across as superfluous & maybe even piss people off. (as I'm sure you've noticed)

I'll also add, the whole "I would have been less forgiving" thing makes no sense to me- Rikuns comic is the same regardless of what other artists produce, imo you should always read peoples work in a vacuum and *attempt* to not let outside things influence your opinion on them. Maybe that's just me.




 

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