[Elyan]

the themes suggested give me the impression to be mainly fun oriented tournaments... i chose speed shipping cause i love some romance now and then and monster mash since.... who doesnt love monsters? haha
its pretty simple isnt it. if there are opinions that these are not the best choices plan other ideas.

one could be a regular vote with a suggestion thread opened beforehand, idea submission limited to a certain amount of time like one week.
this way the members can throw in all kinds of ideas and diskussions like this might be off the table right at the beginning.
the voting should be enabled to spread out the preferences. with lots of suggestions its hard to pick only two. but pick the half of suggestions you would support. with enough voters this might result in a good display of the communitys voice.


i still want to add my thoughts on the invitational topic.
my impression is this. a majority of the community supports the idea of an invitational event. the reasons are obvious and undeniable. syraxis made a good argument.
a concrete setup for ongoing invitational tournaments would be at least something to refer to. also something to be promoted properly beforehand since there would be a guarantee for it.

how about a a 2 or 3 year invitational series. they are undeniable important. they have their drawbacks but all in all work as catalysts.
like all famous tournaments it might be wise to implement them as traditions. even if they get cancelled in some years due to lack of participation. its something that might be worth consideration in effort to listen to the members and value those voices.

if something seems to be misunderstood again and again make it official. make it referable. make it clear so there is something unquestionable about certain topics

[justarhymes]

There's resistance because people would rather complain and do nothing than to take matters into their own hands. It's a little disheartening, but it's something we've all been guilty of. But, that's how any tournament gets started. Whether if it's coming from behind the scenes or not.

There's also no labels for these things anymore. A tournament is a tournament. They're not going to be "unofficial".

This whole conversation is pretty funny, though, considering all of these things are in the works, and even more. Too bad some people only see in present-tense.

There doesn't seem to be much for us to do (there's obviously comics but people like to participate in events) and it's hard for newcomers to feel accepted or even wanted.

This is something I've battled with Void for a long, long time. It's recently just improved a lot, but there's always going to be elitists, and there will always be "old boy" clubs. Hell, even some of these everyman posts stink of both of these.

This isn't really a case of that, though. Pretty sure any small tournament like these are opened up new people.

[Elyan]

this might not work for every mentioned idea. but wouldnt it be smart to give the option to open every smaller tournament up. make any tournament, especially artist tournaments a invitational if wanted?

maybe its worth the effort to establish a promotion plan for invitational/open tournaments

and as for given newcomers a hearty welcome and a feel of being wanted. thats something everybody has to try on their own. it has to be clear what behaviour is asked of us. but a member is a person and a person has their own ways. lets hope we will continue to draw more encouraging people and in a similar amount productive people.

[justarhymes]

There's very rarely a tournament not open to new people, or veteran exclusive. Heavyweight? SRT? That's probably it? All you would need is a character. There used to be a 2 battle minimum required, but I don't think that's the case anymore?

Artist tournaments for newcomers might be good, but people setting that up would have to know the results could reflect poorly on them.

[Elyan]

i´m aware tournaments are open usually and not vetinary exclusive. i was more refering to the option of making them like invitational tournaments. with no classic character aproving process

but yeah a character based tournament is problematic in terms of open for newcomers.
what i meant is open to people with out former involvement and no character. but i see the issue there.

what exactly do you mean with reflection on them? by the tournament founders or combatants?
the proplem i see is the default rate... but seriously that is something you have to deal with in an invitiational tourney setup.
i fell for that trap with clio back then. i know exactly how easy it is to get in and disappoint. but again. the point is to draw new members. its better to accept defaults in this time period than to avoid the possiblity alltogether.

[Angie]

Yeah, most our events are open to whoever. We admittedly did do a few more events in the last year or two that were more exclusive. But keep in mind

-Events that welcome all are necessary to give new people a chance to jump in and have fun.

-Events that are very exclusive and only let certain people in are also necessary. We went years without any actual events that were more exclusive, which made them feel less special. I remember when I joined Void, it was like an all time goal of mine to participate in Armageddon. At the time, events were significantly more special and difficult to get into. (this was also during a period where Void was VERY active and battles had 60+ votes a piece. This was also when Void was very difficult to get into, I got declined 3 times in the approvals)  So there needs to be events where people feel rewarded for doing a good job. You can't play unless you worked your butt off and we need these small rewards to encourage people to do their best.

We just need to have a good balance of both types of events and should be more aware of when we're doing too many of either. If we have too many open events that let everyone in, the people that try hard don't feel as motivated to get into the really cool stuff. But if we have too many exclusive events for veterans, we alienate the new people. I think it's something we should really look into and pay extra attention to in 2016.

[justarhymes]

what exactly do you mean with reflection on them? by the tournament founders or combatants?
the proplem i see is the default rate...

The founders. With an artist tourney, we would have no reference of how good or reliable the people coming in are (unless they provided samples? which, that could honestly put this entire thought to rest), we'd be relying on people setting it up in this case. All tournaments are going to have defaults or incompletes, a few of those isn't a problem. If they happen a lot, it would. I was more so thinking about quality as a whole. What if a bunch of artists are brought in that normally wouldn't be approved, for instance.

[Qyzex]

"You don't like what we're doing, whatever, make it yourself. I mean, we won't do it, even though we're the mods and should be doing what's best for the site we're modding, but nah, fuck that."


That's how you all sound. That's you.

"We don't see the validity of your opinions, so instead of considering them for official tournies, do it yourself"

[Cracking Skulls]

Your point doesnt help when you started outright insulting the people in charge at the start of the thread, Qyz. There's frustration,  but then there's pettiness. Your approach from the very beginning was rude and passive aggressive without any warning,  which, in any community, would make people less likely to take you more seriously. If the passive aggressive approach doesn't work, you work on an approach that will.

There are new mods on the site, and I personally listen to both positive and negative feedback. I take into consideration about concerns and do my best to report them to the mods to better help the community get what they want. Charlie, Jules, mortoocian, and others did express their two cents far more appropriately,  why couldn't you?

[Qyzex]

You want me to pull my punches? Why should I, in this instance? Either way, you're not going to listen to me. You'll not listen to the polite ones either.

You can all say you listen, but until people see results, it's like we're talking to a bunch of walls. This isn't an instance of a bunch of people demanding an SDT or Invitational, we're expressing the importance of it, and how much it's needed. However, we are also expressing how much we hate the options you're giving us to vote on, and we're asking for better options. You're offering us shit, but when we ask for something good, you tell us to go make it ourselves, while you still push shit down our throats. How is that benefiting ANYONE on the site?

[justarhymes]

"You don't like what we're doing, whatever, make it yourself. I mean, we won't do it, even though we're the mods and should be doing what's best for the site we're modding, but nah, fuck that."


That's how you all sound. That's you.

"We don't see the validity of your opinions, so instead of considering them for official tournies, do it yourself"

Do you realize how YOU sound?

If you would read and interact instead of bitch for the sake of bitching, maybe you would have seen people say multiple times that what you want is coming (both things! and more!), and actually coming soon. I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish here, besides trying to shit all over people for having ideas. You're literally on this weird campaign for nothing. If you can't wait a few months, then yes, do it yourself. It shouldn't be this big of a deal. It's a fucking comic site for fun.

You're one of my best friends, so it's extra depressing me to see you do this kind of stuff. We just rid the site of a tyranical bigot, man. We really don't need another.

[GPS-Device]

Okay, my main issue with this whole thread is this.

This is a vote for the next tournament thread. People are saying what they'd like the next tournamentto be. But rather than say, adding an option for them to vote, instead you tell them do it ourselves. I'll say it, its making me kinda pissed off. Sure, Colin is rude, and he can handle himself better, but I'm getting to the point reading this that I'm having a very hard time not taking the same attitude.

And I dont understand why an invitational is a bandaid option? The most successful tournament i can think of is the 2012 invitational, which last i checked, sure as hell doesnt sound like its happening yearly. It had a massive turnout, and had a massive amount of artists stick around and continue doing comics,  which should in my opinion, be the point of an event. It should be to bring in as many people as possible and get them jumpstarted on working! Hell, me, taylor, and Nuthin are all entrants in the last invitational. The site was way more active for at least a year and a half afterwards.

And the reason I think the "do it yourself" argument is stupid, is because it doesnt help. An event is supposed to show a sense of community, something to look at and make people go, I want to be a part of that. If half the site goes FUCK YOU and the other half goes with a tournament only a small portion of people voted for, it makes the community seem cliquey and unapproachable. The last big event was something that only vets could participate in, and thats why I'm personally pushing so hard for something that can include new people. Its true we need a good balance, and I feel like that'd be it, but it has to be something the community can agree upon, because its the only way it wont turn into a steaming pile of shit.

We need to be able to work together, and promote. Even I know thats what made the 2012 invitational so succesful. It got promoted out the ass, and had the community behind it, with the welcome wagon ready to go challenging new people whenever they lost a round, to make sure they'd have a reason to stick around.

I dont see anything like that happening with one of these themed events. Of course the people who vote for it will want in, but if the option you didnt want doesnt make it in, i dont know how many people would really join for ones that didnt even make their top two. I feel like the themed idea is just too niche, and turns itself into a pseudo exclusive event just by guaranteeing from its theme people wont want to participate.

[justarhymes]

Options could definitely be added, and I think it was being considered. We just have to reset the poll each time, so it'd be better to wait for more, right?

And invitational is a bandaid because it's only temporary new people, it's not sustained. The majority don't stick around. So, it doesn't exactly do what people claim.

That promotion is so much work, though. That's what people need to understand. It's like having a second job.

[Qyzex]

I'm not trying to control anything, and i'm voicing an opinion. You of all people know when I speak out, I speak out loud and rudely.

The mods need more transparency. Right now, you say that what we want "is coming" but what does that even mean?

I personally feel that Void in the last year has started down the same path WFA did, and look at WFA now... it's GONE.
They had their tight little group, and it was hard for new people to join and feel like they belonged. And maybe it's me, but I see that same thing happening.

Don't confuse me shitting on mods as just being a shit and wanting to run this place. No, I would never want to run this place. However, I would like to see it do better, and listen to the people who want it to succeed and grow.

And forgive me for being the biggest bag of dicks in this thread, but I've had a shitty history with mods on this site, and I've had a history of being shit on by this site, so I am salty and it will show, so expect it.

I still think you're great Justin, and you're still one of my best friends. But because of that, I also expect you to know I wouldn't hold back my opinions.

[E.W. Schneider]

This thread is turning ad hominem and isn't good for anyone. If an Invitational will be coming, then that's great, that does right by me. I don't care if we have another SDT specifically now (or if we don't have one next year even). I just hope that in the next year we don't have a string of events that are so specialized and perhaps we could focus on something that other people could do. Queen of Void and King of Void was an option for everyone to do and I didn't take that into consideration, so apologies there.

sorry yall hate my idea so much! I'm actually sorry yall hate my idea. I've been hearing criticism of it for months now, so none of this is news to me. "SRT-lite" is exactly what it is, thanks. I wanted it to be a direct companion to SRT. if death can be reversed, why not a scar? doesn't seem that wacky.

It isn't wacky at all, you're absolutely right. If I offended you with that, I'm sorry, that's not my intention. My only issue with it is that I don't know if there's enough people who are able to do it. I think it could work if there was more characters with scars. When I said SRT-Lite, I'm referring less to the concept of reversing scars and more about how the pool for it is small and only applies to characters that are 'scarred'. I'm probably just being a little reactionary to it because of the Speed Resurrection Tournament only just happening (which makes this more of a timing issue than issue with the idea itself). But as of me writing this, there's definitely 10 people who voted for it, so if I could be easily wrong. Hell, you can always always make it a smaller Battle Royale with sub-8 members if it didn't reach those numbers for one reason or another.  I'm only suggesting that a Speed Scar Tournament or some other tournament is made to help build up that base of people with scars before this one.

Also, since we're on the topic of player created tournament right now. I recognize I can do it myself, I know that better than anyone, but what I don't know, is that if I do my thing, am I allowed to have a sign up thread on the forum or do I have to go hunt for people on my own without the forum at my disposal? Do I have to go through the modboards to make it happen or do I just do it?

[Minteh]

In the future, would it be possible to open up a suggestions pool from the community also? Since there seems to be a lot of backlash happening, maybe we can try taking a suggestion from each member if they would like to provide one. The best options (read: most feasible and easily accessible by a large number of active members) out of those then go into the poll.

Also, maybe a forum post on how to set up your own tournament on the site if one doesn't already exist?

[justarhymes]

@ Qyz: All we can say is it's coming because we don't have dates yet. Early next year? Some of the "and more" things are meant to be fun surprises. It's much more transparent than in the past, you should know that.

We don't want you to hold back! There's a difference between that and what you have been doing, though. And, you have to remember, the "mods" (we're not really mods) of the site are very different now. It's completely changed, and mostly for the better. There's no reason to be salty anymore. No one is against you like in the past. That was huge BS. HUGE BS. But, you don't want to poison the well. Don't turn new people against you because of the shit you dealt with in the past.

You are right about things. I've gone to bat for you about some of these things.  I also agree Void isn't in the best place. But, a big reason for that is gone. It just has to recover now. Will it? I don't know. Void has more benefits going for it than WFA did. It won't just vanish. And, I think it's already better off now than it was a year ago. THAT was a mess.

It's a part of the reason the community is needed to help, and why we are trying to turn the site over more to the community.

=====

@ Rofl: I think this thread is very good actually. It got major hijacked, but it's probably something that needed to happen sooner or later.

[MyHatsEatPeople]

This entire thread for me has been like a traumatic child watching their parent have a fight.

(glad things seem to be getting resolved between one another though)

[Heathen]

Since our hands are being slapped away every time we reach out for an SDT, let me suggest some event ideas that don't fucking suck.

Doing some kind of artist match tourney would be ages better, and be able to take ANYONE regardless if they're a fighter on the site or not. Backgrounds only tourney? That'd be super dope.

want to include the most people you possibly can, new and old? Welcome Wagon tourney. Half vets, half newcomers, and have them battle it out.

Like Eric said, if you REALLY want your scar healing stuff, make more scars. Another Scarmageddon. Speed Scar Tourney if you want tourney style rather than royale style.

Also, would anyone be interested in a Communism-style SDT? You enter a character, and if selected for the SDT, you're randomly given one of the submitted characters to use for the tourney? I think that'd make an interesting, albeit smaller SDT

These are good ideas.

[Cracking Skulls]

In the future, would it be possible to open up a suggestions pool from the community also? Since there seems to be a lot of backlash happening, maybe we can try taking a suggestion from each member if they would like to provide one. The best options (read: most feasible and easily accessible by a large number of active members) out of those then go into the poll.

Also, maybe a forum post on how to set up your own tournament on the site if one doesn't already exist?

We have a suggestions thread, but for this sort of specific thing, I'll agree and say this would work as the best option for future ideas. I'll look into making one within this week.

[Kuro]

Oh you guys...

[GPS-Device]

Look, I don't appreciate being told I'm just wrong about something when I'm not, so I'm gonan do this. Here's a list of everyone who joined the site via the invitational, and went on to complete at least two comics or more outside of it. I will not include anyone who had a characetr prior, myself included, because I'm making a point.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.

There. 14 out of 50 something people who joined. Everyone of them completed at least 2 comics outside of the invitational, many of whom stayed on the site for at least a year, if not more. I have not included anyone with a character prior to this event, such as myself and a couple others.

You wanna call it a band aid despite attracting more activity to the site than anything else since it, fine. Be that way. But don't just tell me I'm wrong without any evidence, because as is clear, I don't post a ton. I've been here for almost 4 years and only have less than 140 thread posts. When I talk, I talk from experience and evidence. Don't just tell me I'm wrong when I'm not. Because now I'm actually pissed off.

[Red]

To be honest, we are trying to turn a new leaf. I want VOID to be fun, for people to learn and enjoy themselves. There have been a few regrettable things that have happened that I am truly sorry about and quite embarrassed for. Some of the mods that took us down that path are gone now. Change doesn't happen overnight. We are trying to be more community oriented, hence the polls, and brining people on to think tank that are active in battles and the community.
I think the "do it yourself" response is coming off the wrong way. Please don't take it as something disrespectful because I know the people who said that don't mean it that way. I want people to come up with their own events if they want to. As long as they adhere to the core rules, then I love seeing new ideas.
as one of the troublesome mods you speak of, I honestly only try to uphold our few rules, take care of the behind the scenes stuff, and other than that I want to listen to our community. We aren't perfect and our ways aren't perfect, but we are trying. I agree that more transparency would be good, but honestly we only have very general ideas and nothing set in stone that we are trying to hide from anyone right now. All of the things about void appearing to be this closed off group and how that bad are things I agree with. But again, change can be slow.

And Roflqu, as for making your own events: yes, you can make your own sign up thread, just come to the mods first. We just want to review the rules of the event so they don't violate the void rules, and review the dates so there aren't any major conflicts with other people's tournmants. One thing to point out, in case you were thinking of it, if you wanted an SDT your entires would still need intro pages, like in Miller.

[Charlie]

But GPS That didn't refute Dawg's point though. He said that the majority don't stick around and that is true. One only needs to look at the ORIGINAL invitation that nobody ever brings up because as far as I can tell only like 2 or 3 of us from that one stuck around, and even then that wasn't my first character on the site. As fun as the invitational was and I do agree that we should hold them more often, they aren't the best at actually retaining members.

I think we all need to just chill out because all this drama is embarrassing.

[Angie]

Yeah, it was never my intent to come across as "well fuck you do it yourself". I just wanted to make it clear to people that it's an option for everyone.

I think for the most part a lot of us need to back off from the thread and cool off. Things shouldn't be getting so personal in here. I've already heard from a few people that are afraid to speak up in here because they're afraid of being attacked. And that's not cool! I get being frustrated with the mods or being frustrated with things not happening that you want to happen. But it's important for all of us to realize that this is still just a website. Let's keep the discussion calm and friendly, because toxicity will get us nowhere and do nothing but make both sides defensive.