[Rose]

Mintley suggested creating a separate topic for this since our talk was filling up the Pocket Fighter Jam, and I think that's a good idea.

Basically, we started talking about creating a VOID Fighting Game, either in the style of Pocket Fighters or maybe a more Super Smash Bros.-esque game. I'm interested in heading up the project, and several people have voiced their willingness to help out. What we need to do is:

• Decide what engine/tool to use (Game Maker, Fighter Maker, indie custom engine)
• Hammer out the details of gameplay (SSB or Street Fighter style? AI or fully human? Online or local? etc.)
• Organize into groups and get working on coding, spriting/animation, etc.

I think this could be a really fun experience for anyone looking to get into the game business, possibly help advertise for Void if we publish it as an app or online game, and maybe even make some money to help pay for the site and future projects.

So, let's get to our first discussion: what engine to use? I'm currently leaning towards Game Maker, since it will give us a lot of flexibility without making us code everything. Zest mentioned an indie SSBB engine that was being developed, so that might be an even better option. Opinions? Resources? Let's get this ball rolling!

EDIT: I'm going to add a list of who has volunteered to help with what, so we can get an idea of what we need.

Interface/Design:

• The BenT One
• Atomicfish

Concept sketches, etc.

• Mintley

Animation:

• Animeshen

[The Bent One]

Like I said in the other jam, I'm available to help create any type of interface graphics and other design related things. I won't be able to work on anything for a while though (probably around March).

[Atomicfish]

Sounds like fun. I can do some design stuff, if ya'll need me to.

[Minteh]

I'm not so great with the technical stuff, but I'll see if I can't drum up some concept stuff for stages or something

Any big Void landmarks you guys want to see?

[Tofubeast]

Smash Bros is aight, but I'd personally prefer a more flashier, straightforward fighter in the vein of Street Fighter or the VS series as that seems more "voidlike" to me.

M.U.G.E.N is buggy, but you can apparently write code into it easier. Fighter Maker is apparently better written, but it's harder to change things in it.

If you want to make online play available, you might have to look into GGPO (although you're going to have to work with it to make sure it's not gonna suck) or do research on the online system that Soul Calibur V uses, as they have almost perfect online.

ALSO: We're gonna have to work out hitboxes, frame data and break down moves for all characters.

There's also the option of making a puzzle drop fighter like the original Gem Fighter series/Puyo Puyo!

[Rose]

Tofu: my only beef with Street Fighter-like games is that I'm not a fan of those special combos where you have to remember a complicated sequence to get off a special attack. Other than that, though, I do see the benefit to that style for a Void fighter. On the other hand, a SSB-type game would allow characters to take advantage of parts of the stage and get creative, like throwing cars at each other or something.

[Minteh]

There is also the route that the Persona 4 fighter took - one button strings combos, and if you have enough meter, the combo finishes itself off with a special.  There are other buttons combinations to do the specials on their own, too, though.

It feels like a very casual system, while also allowing 'hardcore' competitive play.

[Tofubeast]

Street Fighter's Ultra combos aren't that complicated to remember, though? Most of the time it's two quartercircles back/forwards and all three kicks or punches, or a zigzag movement and all three kicks or punches.

KOF/Guilty Gear series have more input-heavy strings to them, but I digress.

Skullgirls' build has a very "easy to learn, hard to master" feel to it as well, and actually the original Pocket Fighter had just three buttons (punch, kick, and special) so all you needed to input was a direction and  a button at the most.

And at the very extreme, we have games like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heenWdYYhg0Divekick and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVfDaHAAGRE Senior Footsies, which are two button games.

Aside from all that, I think those who want characters in should turn in a drawn-out sheet of moves and how the character plays (grappler, zoning, etc).

Also, what would be the plan of action for the legal stuff?

[(Pi)]

friends, you're all getting lost in the details.

find an engine, start building a prototype. as far as i know, no one has come forward with any particular programming knowledge, so the complexity of play is kind of up in the air.

if i had my way, i would make this a simple Rock-Paper-Scissors flash game with a bunch of Void fighter skins.

[Zest]

I still think there is some viability in the idea of a tabletop Void game. It wouldn't require programming or animation, which would allow most anyone to contribute. A modular design to the game would easily allow for new fighters to be cycled in as we please. Historically, trading cards have always had multiple artists and styles; that expectation makes it a lot easier for everyone to collaborate. We could give cards away individually at cons or in packs to help fund the site, and offer print-and-play versions online.

I also had some thoughts about the general design of the game. The focus could be shifted from literal physical combat to pleasing an imaginary audience. Instead of trying to knock your opponent out, you're trying to make the flashiest battle possible, gaining points in Quality, Creativity, and Entertainment before the timer runs out. It'd be more true to the spirit of Void and offer a logical space for our non-violent 'fighters' like Sweet Itch and J.J.

[William_Duel]

If I could just throw in a suggestion, having played a few board games and what not...I think some sort of deck building game would work best for Voiders.  Because you can always 'expand' with your own character deck.  Like for example (I can look up the names later), I played this cooperative deck game where there was a central villain deck.  Everyone picked a superhero deck which represented a different individual with power sets.  As you draw, you get powers, equipment, attacks, whatever to attack the central villain with.  DC has just released a DC Superheroes Deck Building game which has similar mechanics.  There are also two player games out there, where you would play competitively head to head.  I think this would make sense with a VOID battle.  And as a card game, people would be able to design their own cards.  That makes more sense to me.

[Tofubeast]

A card game sounds like it'd be the most interesting option, since we keep gaining new characters and members all the time!

You could make it so that the "goal" of the game would be to have your gang (deck) take out an opponent's gang, or take over parts of Void City.

[Rose]

Okay, so maybe a card game would be a better option to start out. I'd be interested in playing around with Game Maker until I feel comfortable with it and then work on an actual computer game for VOID, but you all have really good points that make a card game seem more viable. And it would be fun to do what they did with Pokemon cards and have alternate artists do cards of the same characters with different movesets and such. I also like the idea of not limiting it just to fighting, especially since there are so many non-combatative characters on VOID right now.

[Animeshen]

I like a fighting game AND a card game, I would happily play either! if a fighting game came about, I would volunteer my talents as an animator. If a card game, well I guess we would all draw our own character cards lol, I don't know how else I can contribute there but to play it and help distribute at cons and stuff.

[justarhymes]

I don't want to be THAT GUY, but you all have absolutely no idea what you are doing or talking about. You won't be able to make a fighting game. Do you have any idea how much work that is? A card game is much more realistic, but even that is a long shot.

[Monday]

You should be drawing comics.

[MyHatsEatPeople]

Sorry to rain on everyone's parade but I've got my own concerns about this whole idea being a long shot. Copyright would be a major issue to me.

But hey, I'm just not gonna get involved with this.

[Evi]

I don't want to be THAT GUY, but you all have absolutely no idea what you are doing or talking about. You won't be able to make a fighting game. Do you have any idea how much work that is? A card game is much more realistic, but even that is a long shot.

^ I agree with this.
I don't think you guys realize how much work a fighting game is gonna be, especially with the amount of characters we'll have to be thinking about.

[William_Duel]

Copyright would be a major issue to me.

Why?  Isn't this basically a Jam?  I don't think anyone here has mentioned selling anything. 

EDIT: Sorry I'm dumb, selling was mentioned.  Sorry about that.  Yeah that's a big No No.  If any sort of game were made it would have to be kept free and to the enjoyment of all.

But I agree with what has been said, a video game is a lot of work.  And while Bobo has the eagerness for it, I don't think it's viable.  I suggest the card game thing, because artists could just draw their own cards jam style.  There would just need to be mechanics and a template that people could follow.  And you could just print them out for fun, play it at cons, whatever.

[Dimension]

friends, you're all getting lost in the details.

find an engine, start building a prototype. as far as i know, no one has come forward with any particular programming knowledge, so the complexity of play is kind of up in the air.

if i had my way, i would make this a simple Rock-Paper-Scissors flash game with a bunch of Void fighter skins.

I don't want to be THAT GUY, but you all have absolutely no idea what you are doing or talking about. You won't be able to make a fighting game. Do you have any idea how much work that is? A card game is much more realistic, but even that is a long shot.

^^^^^

Sorry to repeat this. I took a game design class...

Realistically, if you really wanted to make this into an actual playable game, you'd first need a Game Design Document. Get everything organized (the amount of fighting moves each character has, levels, will you be using health bars, will these fights be timed? ect.) and have your goals set.

A Super Smash Bros style game sounds pretty crazy. I mean, like Pi mentioned, does anyone here know how to program at all? Something like Street Fighter does sound more doable. For my game design class, I worked in Unity (game engine) and made 2 very basic prototypes, one was a sort of timed, racing platformer and the other was a "find these items and don't get killed by the enemy character" type of game (I guess you can call it a survival game, but I use the term loosely). The latter game had respawn scripts, kill scripts, a score counter, and a level restart script. Sometimes the scripts would conflict with one another and create a lot of bugs. I was working on this game with a partner and we managed to get the game to work only because we had a ton of scripting help form our teacher. We had A LOT planned for this game and we couldn't even get half of what we wanted done due to our deadline. We even managed to make a rough cut scene and get it to play in the game, but then later we had to take it out because we couldn't get it to play at a particular time.

sorry, MY POINT BEING...

There's no point in making interface designs or concept art for this type of game, seeing as everyone already has there characters designed. Unless you're talking about finding a uniform style or creating backgrounds, but why even worry about those now? You have to have functioning gameplay before even moving on to anything else. Otherwise you'll have a bunch of art, animations, and music that will go to waste.

A simple fighting game can be made if everyone is dedicated and interested in learning the scripting lingo; it's not impossible. It just requires dedication and patience.

A board game or a card game sounds totally doable. I would have no idea how game play would work for that though...the only card battle games I've ever played is Yu-gi-oh! Maybe we can create a neat poker card deck for Void, or maybe that'd just make a neat art jam.

[Rah]

It is possible i think to create customised decks for existing games eg monopoly (not the mos suitable for void, but you get the idea.) maybe try something like that, that way theres already rules and everything but it can just be void themed? Ive even customised game boards before, its pretty fun. Also i like that sort of, handmade ,one-off feel.

[Charlie]

Games are a ton of work and while I'd love to see a VOID fighter realized, the amount of hours + manpower needed would be intense. Not only that but you'd have to find a style to conform to, you cant simply put a game out with a bunch of clashing artstyles...I guess in a way you'd have to find a style and make sure everyone sticks to it. That's only on the art front though.

Dimension hit the nail on the head though for the first part in terms of the initial planning stages of the game. I was in college for 2 years doing 3D stuff as well as game design components (though rather than working in Unity I did some stuff in the Unreal Engine, but we never did any scripting - just learning to utilize the engine graphically).

I see there are a couple people already signed up to do interface work - just as a curiosity do they know that there is more involved to designing a UI that actually functions properly besides designing a screen that looks pretty? It involves a lot of mapping out among other various things - it's a lot of work.

Tofu also brought up all the hitboxes and other stuff that needs a LOT of time to figure out. A fighting game needs to go through a lot of balancing and playtesting just to get things to feel right and any minor changes you make from there could throw that all off.

But ultimately even with all that said, the programming comes to be the biggest issue. I am sure there are people you could find who would be interested...but they aren't from here I am sure, and would almost require a suitable amount of $$$ just to sign on to it.

But hey if you are serious about this and can assemble a team together properly then go for it. I don't wanna rain on the parade but it seems like a hefty project I don't think anyone here is really able to tackle.

And to be totally honest if this many people are willing to work on a fighting game I'd almost suggest to design an all new cast, an all new IP, and work on it with people so you can actually sell it if you so desire.

[Sabulive]

Exactly what Charlie and others have said. Something like a a fighting card game in the line of Magic:The Gathering, yugiOh etc is just much more managable.

Also Becs, monopoly is totally suitable for Void. What if I want to buy Nightingale's tower, Lady Vanity's school and ALL of Tiffany's slut joints >:U

[Rah]

NOPE NO I'VE GOT IT

VOID CLUEDO

[Sabulive]

FUCK ME, Becs that is a genius idea. I am so down for that. Instead of a mansion, the board is the map of Void City, with Void's shiftiest characters being the board players and the methods of murder will be giant robots, super punch and choking on a long tongue.

While we are at it:

Void Twister
Void Trivia
Void Who wants to be a millionare

Last two require people to read the archives to answer the questions!