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The Gauntlet Part 4 - Bros Before Bako
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Coatl's avatar
Coatl
All-Rounder
10 years ago
Puzzlething: What?! No, I totally liked it! Your art is lovely, I'm sorry for coming off as disinterested or harsh guys, I'm not good an putting my love for comics down in words. I certainly love your angular and active art Coatl, and I've always though you have pretty strong art. I'm really, really sorry, I never want people to feel like their comics aren't being enjoyed, and I totally enjoyed myself reading your stuff.
O fuck, I meant to say that my frustrtation was towards the dislike of the gravity effect, not the art in geneal I apologize for that confusion and hope it doesnt stress you out. again so so so sorry.
Posted on The Gauntlet Part 4 - Bros Before Bako battle

PyrasTerran's avatar
PyrasTerran
Writer
10 years ago
Thanks Puzzlething for the critique I hear you about the backgrounds, I remember you've tried advising me about that before. I think I made a tiny bit of progress in Mark of the Blood Beast but I'm definitely a ways to go. I'll keep working on that. As some know I'm always struggling with getting word bubbles right, though in this comic's case it's mostly about running out of time. I'm gonna try again at experimenting for the next one.
Posted on The Gauntlet Part 4 - Bros Before Bako battle

Puzzlething's avatar
Puzzlething
All-Rounder
10 years ago
What?! No, I totally liked it! Your art is lovely, I'm sorry for coming off as disinterested or harsh guys, I'm not good an putting my love for comics down in words. I certainly love your angular and active art Coatl, and I've always though you have pretty strong art. I'm really, really sorry, I never want people to feel like their comics aren't being enjoyed, and I totally enjoyed myself reading your stuff.
Posted on The Gauntlet Part 4 - Bros Before Bako battle

Coatl's avatar
Coatl
All-Rounder
10 years ago
na dont trip about feeling like its rude, I gotta push myself to look more polished as well. I'm actually a bit frustrated you didnt like the shakey effect but that's only cause our opinions differ so its okay.
Posted on The Gauntlet Part 4 - Bros Before Bako battle

Puzzlething's avatar
Puzzlething
All-Rounder
10 years ago
Story - I think everyone has said some great stuff so far, especially ABI's stuff. I hope you really take it to heart dude, that was some good shiz. Art - I'm really not a fan of fights without a setting. Way way too often your characters are just fighting in either a featureless void, or a void with speed lines. There a even a few points where the tiled roof is visible, but it's become so abstracted/exaggerated that it's not even recognizable as such anymore. It just becomes a giant unending grid. Context is just as important for a fight as it is for a conversation. Without context, it's just two dudes slugging away. It's so much harder to grab the reader, and make them feel what you want them to feel, when you don't use such a powerful tool as setting. Tiny stuff I didn't like: I think your speech-bubble tails are a little rough. Trying drawing the outline then just filling that in, it'll look better than dropping a stroke on top of a white shape. Also, I totally don't like the gravity crush effect on page 21. Not feeling it. Sucks that you guys couldn't get all the pages coloured, I think it worked really well. I know from following Zests tumblr though that he's super busy right now though haha. It's really wonderful to see Coatl's stuff all polished and inked. I hope that's not rude to say or anything, but it's seriously totally lovely. I think you did a great job inking his stuff Pyras. Overall a great collab guys, I dunno how you do it!
Posted on The Gauntlet Part 4 - Bros Before Bako battle

PyrasTerran's avatar
PyrasTerran
Writer
10 years ago
Crackingskulls: I see what you're saying with most of that definitely. As far as Sonny and Arena's relationship though, I do think that that has had enough of a presence to be noticeable, as I've seen it shown in other artists' comics. But I still take responsibility for not having done more of it. Majikura: That's exactly right.
Posted on The Gauntlet Part 4 - Bros Before Bako battle

Majikura's avatar
Majikura
All-Rounder
10 years ago
Stating only the major plot points here: - P2 fights Set and saves Arena from Set - Arena and P2 fight the blood beast - Arena and P2 fight Koba and lose - Sonny and Leland step in to fight Koba, and also lose. - Arena gives up and becomes Set again. Two battles and 4 beyond battles later, you are right back where you started.
Posted on The Gauntlet Part 4 - Bros Before Bako battle

Cracking Skulls's avatar
Cracking Skulls
All-Rounder
10 years ago
Pyras- see, the fact you actually had to explain it all here shows how your BB's been suffering all this time. I think you're too focused on making this feel like an epic shonen comic rather than consider the storyline and how they all connect with each other well. Like I've told you before and ABI addressed, nothing previous to this comic was even shown, whether in battles or whatever, what sonny and arenas relationship was like, what Set would do when in control, and whats at stake. The story itself like I've said, felt more like a detour. The conclusion didnt change from what you had in the beginning, and I think everything else has been addressed already. What I WILL say though, that your line quality has improved and thats good. Hope to see the next BB show this quality of linework.
Posted on The Gauntlet Part 4 - Bros Before Bako battle

Jiisuri's avatar
Jiisuri
All-Rounder
10 years ago
I think the important part is none of the things regarding Set or Bako was presented to the viewer within this set of BB comics. If I didn't know Set was the god of chaos and had an involvement with Bako(apparently), aaaand that the war would also wreck shit onto void, then I don't see much at stake in this comic. Tl;dr: show don't tell.
Posted on The Gauntlet Part 4 - Bros Before Bako battle

PyrasTerran's avatar
PyrasTerran
Writer
10 years ago
pineapple-pocky and Mrnoitall: Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I didn't expect such words at all. A Bad Idea: Thanks for the critique. I've always struggled with making Arena comics engaging opposed to my other two characters, which is even more painful because Arena is my favorite of my three. Going into this series, the fact that it is connected to so many various comics from Arena, Sonny, AND agent Koba, I knew alot would get lost in the chaos for some people. I even tried excplaining it all in the TTT prologue, but I didn't succeed much at that either. I'll try to answer your lingering questions best I can: "What is Koba even DOING?" - Koba/Bako is in the middle of a family feud with his brother and father, who are all battling for control of their dimension kingdom. Koba is recruiting strong fighters for his own army to try and take back control of the kingdom from his brother while simultaneously preventing his father from retaining it. (comics: Sonny vs Koba/Koba's side, Arena vs. Koba/Koba's side, Anya & Koba vs. Satin & Lilyfeather/Anya & Koba's side) "Why is it so important to stop him? What happens when they DON'T stop Koba?" - The time goddess Naussicaa predicts that if Koba continues on this path, the war will bleed into Void City and leave it in ruins, killing millions. (Anya & Koba vs. Satin & Lilyfeather/Anya & Koba's side) "Why is it bad if Arena turns back into Set when we've never actually seen any dire consequences for when Arena WAS Set? What exactly is at stake?" - Set is the Egyptian god of chaos and darkness, responsible for almost bringing ruin to his own pantheon by killing its then ruler Osiris (Egyptian mythology). He also fought alongside Koba/Bako and his brother Justice to overthrow their father, but was betrayed by Justice and imprisoned in a mask. Bako has released him to join his army and take back their kingdom, the war of which would lead to destroying Void City (Arena vs. Koba, Koba's side, Anya & Koba vs. Satin & Lilyfeather, Anya & Koba's side) Besides this, Koba is basically enslaving Arena and using her body for his own gains. "when Arena and P2 are suddenly able to harm the Blood Beast in part 2 when everything they've done to it before that point was completely ineffective." - Everything they had done up to that point was blunt force trauma, which is what Arena and P2 normally use in combat. A piercing/drilling attack with a gravity pull to strengthen it is what was able to breach Chiroptos' rubbery armor. "For this comic in particular, what exactly was the point of Koba's "pick a card" move? Koba hadn't been using any sort of "stage magician"-themed moves up until now, so why suddenly throw it out?" - Koba as Bako has a playing card motif to both his design and his combat style. His signature sword is always drawn from a card (this comic, Arena vs. Koba/Arena's side, and the BB Huesitos The Warrior: Controlling the Daemon), and he is an illusionist. The original idea for this was a simple illusion, Sonny hits a fake Bako that bursts into a card, and Bako attacks from behind. Coatl had an idea to make a goofy gag attack with the magician routine, I thought it was fun and cool, and we went with it. Evidently, it was either a mistake or not done well enough. I really appreciate the critique and will try to keep these things in mind for the next BB.
Posted on The Gauntlet Part 4 - Bros Before Bako battle

Coatl's avatar
Coatl
All-Rounder
10 years ago
No lie, i do feel grateful you gave out such wonderful advice. Hopefully people can learn from it mistakes in the pursuit of seeing better comics
Posted on The Gauntlet Part 4 - Bros Before Bako battle

A Bad Idea's avatar
A Bad Idea
All-Rounder
10 years ago
Well, after reading four chapters, I'm ready to express my thoughts so far: My enjoyment of this saga is held back by the persisting efforts of one major flaw: the drama is really, really bland. There are certainly dramatic things happening, yes, but they all happen so arbitrarily that I find myself not caring about them. The thing about drama is finding a way to convey the gravity of the situation; if the audience does not understand the risks and stakes involved, then the drama just falls flat. You seem to want us to care about Arena struggling with the whole Set thing, and you seem to want us to care about Koba's machinations, but neither of them are made important to us; they're just presented as "things we're supposed to care about". What is Koba even DOING? Why is it so important to stop him? What happens when they DON'T stop Koba? Why is it bad if Arena turns back into Set when we've never actually seen any dire consequences for when Arena WAS Set? What exactly is at stake? The second thing that feels arbitrary and poorly conveyed is the development of the characters. The way you've written P2 and Arena doesn't make it feel as though they have a mutual attachment to one another, so when they are threatened by separation, it just feels melodramatic and goofy. I'm not saying they should be kissing and hugging, but the fact that they're both dramatically calling each other's names in moments of peril just feels silly to me. Then there's the introduction of Sonny in this comic, which poses many of the same problems. I know it was stated in your TTT match that Sonny has to go train with Leland, but this poses two problems: one, the problem of having to read a supplemental comic to understand this one, and two, that supplemental comic DOESN'T EXIST. With no exposition, Sonny just suddenly appears as a calm and wisened boy-prodigy, and the only sign that he's even developed is P2 arbitrarily commenting on it (which, in a completely different topic, feels out of character for P2, who has only met Sonny briefly once, if I recall). This robs me as a reader of any reason to care or understand Sonny's development, and takes away any of its significance to the story. The third most glaring flaw is in your fight writing. In comics, fight scenes can be thought of as "violent problem-solving". If the opponent possesses something that makes it difficult to defeat him, it needs to be presented to the reader. Likewise, when the hero needs to find out how to "solve" the opponent, that also needs to be presented to the reader so that it's apparent what is happening. It worked a *little* better in this comic with Sonny's whole "I don't believe in magic" spiel, but your previous entries in this saga (as well as a part in this one) are hurting from a lack of "fight logic", like when Arena and P2 are suddenly able to harm the Blood Beast in part 2 when everything they've done to it before that point was completely ineffective. For this comic in particular, what exactly was the point of Koba's "pick a card" move? Koba hadn't been using any sort of "stage magician"-themed moves up until now, so why suddenly throw it out? It's also unclear what picking a card is supposed to do; he lays out the cards, but he's still standing right there in front of Sonny, so it's not clear that it's supposed to be a deception, since picking the 'wrong' card evidently allows Koba to launch his surprise attack. The function of that move is not conveyed very well, and as a result it just feels like a waste of panels if the end result was that Koba was supposed to surprise Sonny with a magic beam. It's similar to introducing a reader to a puzzle; you have to let the reader see all the pieces, understand what they do, and then put it together during the fight. So overall, the whole experience of this saga has really just felt like "one climactic thing after another after another" with no real sense of direction or purpose. I don't know what you have planned next, but I think there's still enough time to reel it back in and make the finale really worth it.
Posted on The Gauntlet Part 4 - Bros Before Bako battle

Darius Corry's avatar
Darius Corry
All-Rounder
10 years ago
This was awesome.
Posted on The Gauntlet Part 4 - Bros Before Bako battle

Pennydox's avatar
Pennydox
All-Rounder
10 years ago
wow that was pretty epic. And Pyras, this time I do not care much about the comics referenced because it was solid by itself, which was lacking in many other previous comics from this series (where you had to understand the situation from a bajillion other comics). Sonny, you are finally woopin ass, good for you. Wonderful action that is easily understood where every panel is a different fight scene. Sorry not much I can really critique on, and I'm not going to say anything about the last pages because you already explained it.
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PyrasTerran's avatar
PyrasTerran
Writer
10 years ago
Comics that are referenced: Sonny vs Koba (koba's side) http://entervoid.com/index.php?action=comic%3bid=3664 Sonny & M-Zero-Oh vs P2 & Arena (P2 & Arena's side) http://entervoid.com/index.php?action=comic%3bid=4501 And of course the other Tag Team Tournament and Gauntlet comics of Arena, if you haven't already for some reason.
Posted on The Gauntlet Part 4 - Bros Before Bako battle

PyrasTerran's avatar
PyrasTerran
Writer
10 years ago
Just an update for everyone who is wondering just what the $&#% is going on with this BB's release: we want to at least marginally finish the last few pages, but for the last week or so have not been able to even touch the pages because of reasons A-Z. The BB is not complete, but we're simply not able to continue any further past this last set of days we got and still keep with our other responsibilities (including other battles). So once this is finally up, sorry for the incompletion you will notice <3
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Shojin's avatar
Shojin
All-Rounder
10 years ago
can't wait to see this :D
Posted on The Gauntlet Part 4 - Bros Before Bako battle

PyrasTerran's avatar
PyrasTerran
Writer
10 years ago
EXTENSION T'was necessary :|
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Orion's avatar
Orion
All-Rounder
11 years ago
And now... ANTICIPATION!
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PyrasTerran's avatar
PyrasTerran
Writer
11 years ago
CREDITS Story: Pyras Story Editing: Coatl Layout: Coatl Layout Editing: Pyras Pencils/Art: Coatl Inking/Lineart & some proportion Editing: Pyras Coloring: Zest (page 1), Coatl (select pages) Lettering: Coatl, Zest, Pyras
Posted on The Gauntlet Part 4 - Bros Before Bako battle