I just have to say, this battle made me realize how useful playlists can be and how much better I need to integrate them into the main site! I had no idea what was going on in either of these comics, and I suspect it's because of all the backstory I've missed since I've been away and other things like that. I'll have to go back and read up more on Sangre and Edge, because they both seem to have cool storylines going on... I just don't know what they are at this point! Hahah. EDIT: Thresher, I see that you meant your comic to be a stand-alone comic. In that case, I think the biggest issue was the abrupt ending. The beginning was a little confusing, what with all the lingo and buzzwords, but I could get the general gist of it. I just didn't understand what was going on toward the end. Also, a lot of your backgrounds were just sketchy enough and colored all the same enough that I couldn't quite tell what they were without working at it. I think that's another area you could work on sharpening--making sure we know what's going on around the characters so we keep our sense of location and reference point.

Oh my, oh my look at all this delicious feedback! I am a little bowled over at the staggering amount of critical insight here. This has honestly been one of my favourite battles against one of my favourite artists on the site and it is wonderful to see such a response to it. @Jongbom - You really did come back with a helluva crit! Linework is a absolutely a major issue for me and I will endeavour to improve upon it for next time. Colour was also used poorly on my end, especially with the grays in the market place. Very poignant thoughts and I'm glad you enjoyed it! @Crafty - Thank you! You are too kind c: @Puzzlething - There is a severe lack of lighting in this comic, an aspect I tend to neglect and reeeally shouldn't. It will definitely be finished off and posted up here, probably with a few redrawn panels too! Cheers muchly for the thoughts~ @Pyrasterran - The Agent 013 story was introduced for this comic only. I tend to prefer having single storylines for each comic, rather than an ongoing sequential thing. Episodic tends to work better for battle formats I feel. I was hoping I had written it in such a way that it was easy to pick up, but that must not be the case. I'll have to work harder at that! @Monday - I agree that consistency is important in a comic, and that I have not achieved it here. I'm actually a little honoured that you can get behind my work's style here, even if it does seem to perform hirikiri. Producing sharp and complete story lines will be my major goal for future comics, as that tends to be better for battles. I'm glad that I was ambitious with it, and hopefully it will be excellent when I finish it up. To be honest, I wasn't expecting to win against Nachte, I just wanted to give it a darn good go! Also, thanks for expanding upon Wei's points. It'll be interesting to see how we can swing @Maester Kent - Your name changes so often on this site! I agree with the font being awkward, I need to build up a better font library and use them more effectively. Typography is an alien beast to me, one I need to study and dissect if I want to use it effectively. The backgrounds were of varying definition, something solid time management will hopefully aide with in the future. UNTIL WE BOUT MAESTER KENT! @Wei - Dang you wrote a lot! Your major point about the unfinished artwork looking sucky is on point and I will absolutely have to work harder on that. Jus to clarify on the ugly space suit, are we talking about the initial space suit where Sangre is floating in space, or the later semi-space suit? I quite liked the latter one myself. Regardless, finishing things to a high polish is a habit I need to develop. I will definitely be looking into these jams in the future. Next battle/jam I will aim for a far more complete work. Thanks for taking the time to echo your thoughts so honestly! I really appreciate it c: @RedStarShip – OPPONENT! Usually I consider myself rather good at clothes, but I agree that in a few panels in this comic I might have taken a few damaging shortcuts in later panels. Oh and that space suit wasn't great for anatomy. Definitely something for me to be more diligent with! Speech bubbles and type are another point I need to work on, keeping my eye on speech bubbles should have been a simple matter and there is no excuse for slipping here. None the less, I look forward to our battle and hope to deliver on some of the criticisms here! Seriously, thanks again guys for all your words, thoughts and feelings. And thank you Nachte, for being an excellent opponent and a fine human being to do battle with! Onwards and upwards!

I kind of sped through the comics and the previous comments, but I hope I can enhance or add some new points as well. (and this is my first time critiquing in a while...so sorry if it sounds jumbled. orz) Thresher: Like everyone said, some of the environment shots worked in your favor. Gave the setting a good sense of space. The story did seem to end abruptly though, so I felt there wasn't a great sense of conflict and a climax to it. Also make sure to work on anatomy! Sometimes I feel that you just put the clothes on top of the characters and didn't consider how it fits on the form. Always make sure to do some sort of under-drawing for that. I've also noticed in your speech bubbles that the lines are squeezed a bit tightly. Be sure to give it a bit of breathing room. Otherwise, this is an improvement from the other comics I've read of yours, so keep at it! Nachte: I loved this! Honestly, I find that you nailed that sketchy style down. It gives it a great sense of motion to the comic. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. :) The storytelling is great and the hand-lettering is fab! I will emphasize this like some others have, but you do have a tendency to do too many close-ups on your characters. Even if it involves a lot of dialogue and such, here and there you need to still give a sense of where they are in the story. Also make sure your action shots are much more dynamic. Change up the angles to give it a sense of motion and such. Otherwise, great job!

I'm sorry I don't meet your expectations Wei. Unfortunately we don't seem to see eye to eye on a lot of things, and thats cool I suppose.

I wouldn't exactly pin the problem on tablets but I will be quick to agree that the difference between traditional and digital mediums is speed and limitations. With traditional media you're essentially limited to working a certain way which lends itself to having its own look and most importantly- takes a bit longer to develop to a complete picture. It's great for building foundation, and the concept of making a picture look good by scraping a piece of lead on 2-3 sheets of paper is a challenge in itself , enough to develop someone's hand much faster. Digital mediums are simply faster, and cheaper - and what limitations you used to face would have to be self imposed or imaginary. This is both a danger and a boon. Less time to work on something means less thoughtful lines. But I could also argue that its wide variation of use allows it to do some really unconventional things like revising a drawing 10-12 times in a few minutes as opposed to redoing the same sketch 2 to 3 times pencilling. However these are things you wouldn't think of doing in either medium unless you had practiced your basics in some way. Its important to have a superior mind's eye when using a tool that runs purely on your 'vision' alone. The issue here is ultimately patience and determination to complete an image. Some people do it better when they're limited from traditional mediums - others do so through lengthy experimentation and iterative process. I'll echo wei's thoughts that foundation has to be achieved with the most basic of tools, you'll be surprised what skills carry over in digital mediums when you're pressed for time.

Thresher: I had a whole bunch more for you typed out as well but cest la vie.....please read what I had to say to Natche first.....because the blurb about tablets obviously applies to you too....perhaps more so Lemme get the good stuff outta the way first so you can staunch yourself against the bad...and there is some bad You are displaying and expanding a real talent for plotting and laying out your panels and pages....you do so at an almost professional level and in a very cinematographical manner...you quite frankly blow Natche outta the water....and you give most of the artist here on void a run for their money if not outright smack their dicks in the dirt in this regard....I wish I had half your instinct for layout. But this makes it even more glaringly apparent that your artwork SUCKS....and allow me to clarify....I do not presume to say you do not have talent or ability....I am saying that you are obviously not making the effort...you are giving us thumbnails or storyboards with colour and word bubblles instead of comics.....showing us where everything should be and how it should be or how we should see it(and in fact doing it well)....but you aren't doing so in an aesthetically or pleasing manner....you are just sketching everything in like placeholders for the actual finished product......you are not making any effort to produce more than sketches....you aren't drawing or even attempting to clean up your sketches like Natche........you ABSOLUTELY have to start making the effort to finish and polish your art....make it worth the effort and design of your layout and panels....its bordering on the criminal ...I think you would benefit from doing as many art jams as possible and only submitting FINISHED work for them.......I'll say the same thing to you.....draw like you love it...not like yer mom told you to do it I had more of a breakdown for you as well...where I yelled at you about a lot more and talked about wanting to do you violence whenever I looked at the silhoette of her in that ugly spacesuit or your backgrounds...but it got lost...so instead I'll just say do the artjams and look at Natche and how he cleans up his work....and if at all possible do it with a pencil and paper instead

sigh....okay just wasted over 45 min. typing out an editing a response to both of you only to find the new limits of the message system...so this isn't going to be thoughtful or expansive as the original response was; I have been very vocal in the past about how I think young or new artists should stay away from using a tablet until they have a few year of drawing with pen and paper under their belt, learning how to draw in real terms with real tools and using that part of their brain to do so before attempting to use a tablet to draw......all to often when they don't the result is sloppy lazy sketchy paintchhat doodles....and the benefits of using a tablet are not explored or used....the use of the tablet even becomes a handicap in itself instead of a tool.....and mostly because nobody says hey that looks like crap....you can do better than that well to both of you....you can do better than this Having the opportunity to compare both of your entries against one another was beneficial because the one illuminated the weakness of the other; Natche: I can see the effort you make to clean up and tighten your sketches before adding the tones and monochrome(works nice where you actually use it) but it isn't enough....you aren't drawing....you are just sketching more detail into your sketches for the most part....there is no individuality or emotional content in the lines....there isn't enough white and black fields....there isn't enough tone/monochrome work....most of this screams sketchy doodles.....and you are capable of much better so it just isn't acceptable Its like you are trying to do the sketches, pencils and inks all at once and it just doesn't work son. Try using the digital layers like old timers used blueline pencils and tracing paper.....and really focus on proper drawing overtop of your sketches.....make the effort to draw like you love it..don't just doodle and sketch like your mom told you to I had more of a breakdown of pages and panels...I wanted you to look at the difference between your pages in quality and how it disrupts the visual narrative...look at page 6 and page 10...and on a larger scale or long term goal look at how well Thresher lays out the story and content as opposed to say...page 9of your comic.......this should be a real emo moment but it is flat and dull because you have squeezed and pushed it into a page instead of using yer skills to show us 'what is going on' instead of just showing 'what is happening'

My thoughts page to page: Thresher - The font in the very beginning (and it pops up later) was very hard to read. I did very much like how you rendered that space station, including the interior hallways! Your layouts are generally inspired and entertaining, for example Page 4 with the cutout Sangre figure in upper left. The backgrounds range from suggestive (bottom of Page 4) to more exact (Page 5 warehouse), and in the future I'd like to see more of the either. The last few pages where backgrounds drop out completely could have used more. Oh and watch the text, for example on Page 6--the lines are running too close to each other. It would be easier to read with a little space between. That said, this was a very entertaining comic! I think you nailed the characterizations and the story was really interesting. I look forward to our match in the future :D Nachte - First off I think you gave Edge a very intriguing mission and the writing was really suspenseful throughout. I liked your text balloons, and the little inverted tail when someone was speaking from offscreen. Cute and inventive :D The flashiness at the end with the fights and the other Sangre is cool and all but I'll need to read up on what the deal with that is. I am intrigued to find out more--and FINALLY--nice to see them Saint Corp bastards back on the scene! Keep it up and glad to see you back in action Nachte!

Being the unintended target audience for this fight it would be an attack on my very being if I didn't say how much I enjoyed this. Black's passing was almost a year ago but I still felt like I haven't closed the loop with him. From my point of view I'm reading a personal story about how a character that burnt out and was completely forgotten can finally come to terms with their actions now that they were remembered by someone. Even missed. The direction the new generation is taking is thrilling- and board is wiped clean so that others- even heroes of past can start on the same foot. Edge comes in with an art style I can totally get behind and I congratulate you for attempting something big even though I can only see a fraction of it.Your backgrounds started you off strong but as Jong pointed out, the dip in quality later in appeared as a gaping wound. While I like the ambition behind these lines and this style it would have served you better to dial back and kept to a consistent style. Learn to pace this style and you can focus on effective narrative and not get mired in going all in one or two good panels at the cost of time. Your opponnent was Nachte - and despite your strong work- you will have quite the trouble winning over her tried and true methods thats been forged from experience alone. Tera, your writing and authorship is superb as always. A new surprise for me was how much better and more distinct your characters have become. And its even better that I see no holes in your storytelling and even though I wished that the climax had more of a Sturm and Drang behind it- split up over more pages and bigger panels --but, I can accept this as it sits. Your preference in close-in shots weakens your ability to draw large scale environmental stuff. It feels that both your strengths and weaknesses here are the inverse of Edge's but you yourself have an advantage for having a more complete and consistent read. I would stress practicing with life drawing more especially with images with lots of values and contrast. But besides all that thank you very much for this lovely read. -Xs but no O, Yours Truly

Thresher, I usually love your Edge stories but this time I was very confused, Idunno if I missed something about an Agent 013 story arc in a previous comic, or is it in Sangre Gris'? Either way, I still like your backgrounds too much. Nachte: nice! Sangre Gris is a French moniker though?? Sangre Gris translates in Spanish exactly as gray blood.. I thought Sang was how you say it in French.. Still love this work, though I think panel 2 of page 10 could have used more work in the perspective and figure.

Damn Jong, awesome crit! Thresher - I really love the setting dude, it has great personality. I think you could've heightened the atmospheric affect of the environment if you'd leaned a litter harder into your lights and shadows. You toy around with a tiny bit on page 5 with the light from the door, but aside from that your comic is mostly flat rendering, with no real variance of tone. I wanted the the space station to have a commanding presence in the comic. It's awesome, are you going to post the rest of it when you're finished? Because I really really want to see the whole thing. Nachte - Oh man, I'm in love with the ways you use gray. Your lighting is so dramatic and dynamic. It's amazing how you can take a story with so many fantastic elements, assassins, clones, gunfights, and make something that feels so honest and close. I love the way you do faces, just how you use your lines and angles. Your linework moves between loose and meticulous in way that feels seamless, and only makes the story feel more personal. It's beautiful work dude. Even if you just came back to make this, I'm glad you did, because it makes me want to take more care in my own stuff.

THESE ARE BOTH SO GREAT!! Amazing job! Hopefully I can form a coherent critique when I stop fangirling over these.

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!! this was an inspiring read from both of you. [OK. EDIT] @Thresher: I enjoy and deeply respect your cinematic, wide-shot approach to the panels in your pages, which is punctuated by these expansive, agrophobia-inducing environmental layouts. However, the roughness of some of certain effects unfortunately takes away from the great mood the environments put the reader (me) in, and draws attention to itself (ex: gunsmoke/debris in page 3), which overall i think is a symptom of your generally lackluster line-art quality. The line-art quality continues to draw attention to itself in the final panel of page 5, when the bland background color exposes the absence of character in your lineart. The action picked up in the page after, but the lineart draws attention to itself in the final page, when the color-scheme goes monotone. Without background color backing up your lines, the whole quality of your pages begins to fall apart. @Nachte: The first thing i notice is the astounding level of detail present in each panel. The 2nd thing i notice are the strong emotive depiction of characters, every panel every character's face is doing something different from the last, whether its because of a genuine reaction to new situation or a novel angle on depiction. But perhaps the best thing i can comment is the level of authorship that went into creating convincing dialogue and an engaging story (which is a bias, since i'm a black fan). Conclusion: What you both shared was rough lineart, however, Nachte's didn't bother me as opposed to yours Thresher for two main reasons: 1.Nachte's lineart didn't draw attention to itself, but rather, it was more obscured by the fact that the same quality existed throughout the entire page due to the heavy details. 2.This was further aided by the nature of Nachte's up-close and character-driven story, punctuated with character faces. The focus was completely in the narrative. In comparison, your art focused on environments more, and all that open space naturally leads the eyes to areas of detail. I conclude that you, Thresher, ought to tighten up lineart where it counts (close ups, areas of detail surrounded by large expanses), also don't ignore your background colors. Putting up a bland, placeholder gray is a dire injury you can inflict upon the quality of your own art.

Last minute uploads are not a great habit. BEEN A FUCKING HONOUR NACHTE

Ysy Edge! And welcome back Sangre Gris! Nice to see these two in ak-sheen :)

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OH MY GOD THIS IS PERFECT

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