Hands of Time, Wheel of Fate Part 1 / Welcome Wagon and The Other Guy

Hands of Time, Wheel of Fate Part 1 / Welcome Wagon and The Other Guy

Hands of Time, Wheel of Fate Part 1 — Welcome Wagon and The Other Guy

Icon for Welcome WagonIcon for The Other Guy
Page 1Page 2Page 3Page 4Page 5Page 6Page 7Page 8Page 9Page 10Page 11Page 12Page 13Page 14Page 15Page 16Page 17Page 18Page 19Page 20Page 21

Crit level: In-depth critique preferred
tags: 2020, catador, chica, egg dealer, heathen, scifi, space opera, Tag Team Tournament, the other guy, underwood, welcome wagon

Critiques & Comments
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# 10   Posted: Oct 26 2020, 06:08 PM
Damn, this is excellent work from a visual standpoint. I felt like I was reading a PDF of an official graphic novel with the cover and first few pages. The detail is really astounding for just two weeks, but you two ARE speed demons who don’t sacrifice quality. I really like how the details were stylised too, like the almost leaf-like smoke on the very last page. Other people have mentioned this too, but I gotta say it’s cool how you did your own version of Void but still made it clear it was Void with the characters involved, like Egg Dealer (who was suitably horrifying, by the way).

This comic felt kind of cerebral to me and I had to come back to it to see if I got it more, but I kinda didn’t. I’m not sure if that was intentional because this is a part one or what, but I’m left more confused than wanting to know wrt things like what a Golgothan is and why the Other Guy burst out of the monk’s mouth.

Web Dev
# 9   Posted: Oct 26 2020, 10:49 AM
Doing nearly 20 cohesive comic pages in a 2 week span is pretty impressive. I do think you stretched yourselves a bit thin in some areas, though. Both art and story-wise. The thing that really sticks out with that are pages 4-12 just not really being needed. I think they could have been condensed to 4 or 5 pages, and that sequence would have flowed so much nicer. It also would have allowed more time to up the quality of the presented pages and really go for an MR rank (if lettered ranks are still a thing??).

I would enjoy seeing you 2 do some more collabs with each other, even outside of this specific series

PS: I really like the cover

# 8   Posted: Oct 24 2020, 09:17 PM


Quality- You two are some style chameleons.  There are points where the artwork is just amazing and really nails that feel of 80s indie comics.  I see a lot of Jean Giraud influence here.  Y'all where mostly successful in emulating that look.  
There are some areas where the lines needed more variations in width to show distance better.  Like the final panel of pg 8, where the ship looks kind of flat against the ground without any shadows,  and third panel of pg 19 for example, where chica and catador run into each other where it looks like you were trying to have one further away from the camera.  
The panels with a lot of detail are great but it makes the areas where there's less  detail stand out more.  
I did like the way how you would have just lines along an object indicate where shadows are.  
It looks best when the lines contour to the objects they're on, giving them detail despite the someone minimal look.  Like WW's face and the establishing shots especially of space look great.
But areas where they're just long straight lines like on Catador's face and outfit on 2nd panel pg 15. they look a little too flat.
And what Bobo said with the lettering there are points where the words needed more room to read easier.  Bubbles with more text in them kind of get mashed together.
But for two weeks for two people this looks amazing and much of the negatives I had with art mostly was where it looked like there wasn't enough time to polish it.

Creativity-  Anytime I see reinterpretations of characters it gets my attention, especially with alternate settings from the typical void city.
I don't have many complaints about the visual storytelling here.  Composition is good, you varied up the staging, the colors when you had them added to the mood.  At first I felt that Chica wasn't 'toony' enough but then I really liked the idea of taking a toon and changing their look to fit another art style and genre.  Kind of like with those Duck Dodgers cartoons.  

Entertainment- Again, this is some good pulpy space opera goodness.  Much of the characterization was pretty surface level but I got a pretty good feel of what the personalities of chica and catador. Would have liked to see more from your two characters proper but the Monk was a very interesting bit of world building that helped establish WW and OG as these near godlike beings of legend.  It was a pretty stock story we've seen a bunch but it flowed well and it was entertaining to read.  Really good popcorn fun.

# 7   Posted: Oct 24 2020, 09:09 PM
The details of this comic are stunning, and I really like the colors where they were used. I agree that there wasn't much of your own characters in this, I would have loved to see them take more of a part in the comic.

I still liked the story that you told in this, and I'm excited to see where their stories lead them in the future!

# 6   Posted: Oct 24 2020, 05:25 PM
It was a shame you two weren't able to  submit on time due to technical difficulties but wow this comic is such a trip. Page 5 had me double  take on the panel reading sequence a bit and the shape of the text bubbles to rectangle threw me off momentarily (I just got used to thinking of them as narration boxes due to experience)

The creativity between the two of you is insane and I admire the attention to detail in every panel. Dialogue is great too and overall the comic is very professional in both writing and art! I really enjoyed this story and looking forward to seeing the next installment.  Amazing job both of you.

Web Dev
# 5   Posted: Oct 23 2020, 07:09 PM
Art-wise, this was nearly perfect, and absolutely a marvel in terms of how much detail you were able to fit into it in a mere two weeks. The fixed-width brush you used to ink worked really well in the way you drew backgrounds and inorganic elements especially. There were panels here and there where the visual density was a bit too uniform and it was hard for me to distinguish foreground from background and differentiate shapes, but for the most part everything was crisp and clear. The colors, where they were used, were beautiful.

I'm not sure if this counts as art per se, but my biggest issue with this comic was the text. There wasn't enough space between text and speech bubble/textbox, and the kerning was way too close together. I had to strain to read the whole time. I'd either try a different font or just increase the kerning so the letters have a bit more room to breathe.

Writing-wise, this was quite a trip. You did a great job of cutting out a lot of backstory by making it clear from your art and from context in general what was going on, so you could focus on the important stuff. On the other hand, there was a lack of depth in character relationships because so much of it was implied rather than shown on-page. I'd like to see more interpersonal development in the future. That said, this story is also just kind of an insane romp through a fantastical universe, so do we really need deep character interactions? Probably not.

I had a ton of fun reading this, and it's a damn shame you guys had technical difficulties at the last minute! I'm so glad you guys are finishing your story arc regardless, and look forward to your next installment!

# 4   Posted: Oct 21 2020, 04:14 PM
This was INSANE. I feel undeserving of critiquing this at all, everything about this felt so professional and polished! 21 pages in such a short amount of time is aaabsolutely NUTS. SPECIALLY considering how high-quality everything is! If anything, I was a tiny bit thrown off by the short amount of "screen time" your characters had. But I get the feeling it was intentional for whatever comes next
I am very sorry to hear about the setbacks, it was incredibly bad luck
Hope to see more of WW and Other guy! I really wonder what they are all about, this just made me itch for more!

# 3   Posted: Oct 19 2020, 09:09 PM
wow! 21 pages in 2 weeks is amazing! And everything looked pretty detailed too!I really enjoyed looking at your line art. Lot’s of action, it was a thrilling read. The story was a real trip, I’m wondering how deep this will go in the next parts of the story. Page 4 was a great establishing shot with all the detail.
You guys consistently have awesome art.
And thank you for the cameo, it made my day, I was totally not expecting that! :)

Great job!

Community Manager
# 2   Posted: Oct 19 2020, 06:19 PM
EDIT: Thanks for some discussion about the comic on discord heathen it helped clarify a bunch of things about the comic story for me. We already talked about it in DMs but to have it archived here my main crit is that there isn't a clear enough distinction for WW's dialogue (The specific dialogue you mentioned to WW's I thought was actually Other Guy's)  so for future comics  make his narration more obvious and potentially make all the narration in the comic from his perspective to make it obvious his has a sort of powerful presence despite not physically being there. He's still a new character so we don't know the extent of his powers or if he's being used by another greater being.
also please draw an environment based on the Cadillac graveyard since that would be really cool.

It really sucks that technical difficulties happened and you ended up defaulting to things out of your control. This is a fantastic comic and both of you work amazingly well together, I'm interested to hear how you two divided up the work for this. There is a lot  of great stuff in this comic and I could go on about that but since you asked for a crit, here's my crit.

Welcome wagon isn't just underused in this comic, he's a non-entity that can be replaced by any character with just the changing of 3 panels on 2 words (also Other guys presence is pretty weak as well but it's passable compared to Welcome Wagon's) . There are only 3 images of welcome wagon in this comic, one being the title page, and nothing of his 1985 chrysler lebaron which was emphasized in his intro. Also we are told is a Golgothon is weeping with no foreshadowing or explanation. since there is nore foreshadowing or explanation you can just change that word with anything else and put any other character in this and it would have had the same impact (You don't even need to change the word, since it was never explained you could just put any character there and call them the last golgothon and it wouldn't have changed anything). Your art is so amazing you could have done that page with any other character and it would have looked just as good and provided the same impact.

You can be vague about it but we need some hints at what a golgothon is, why it's weeping, and most importantly why should we care about it? We need some context clues either in slight exposition about it so that we can care when you finally reveal it. Maybe Void is such a shithole because all the golgothons were killed and protecting it? You could have also done some environmental things like make the arena Catador is in relate to either Other guy or WW (I would really love to see some kind of Cadillac graveyard or something like that to show the remains of his planet).

When I first read it I tried to justify the lack of their appearance thinking maybe the tailless box dialogue narrator was one of the two. But the problem is you use those boxes for not just narration but dialogue (catador and chica on page 16 for example). You should not be using those boxes for regular dialogue and should only relegate them to one character.

This is more an Egg Dealer comic than an Other Guy comic or WW comic. He plays more of a part in this comic and WW and other guy feel more like cameos that people sometimes do in tourneys trying to guess at their next opponent. The time spent on Egg Dealer should have been spent foreshadowing both WW and Other guy, both in dialogue and environment.

Don did a great hand forest thing in their recent comic that you could have used for Other Guy. Your sci-fi spaceships could have more so looked like space ship versions of cars similar to the chrysler Lebaron or maybe even modern cars, that way the inevitable reveal of WW weapon feels more appropriate. I feel the difference between the level of sci-fi in this setting and WW weapon goes beyond the point of funny randomness into just being headscratching and not funny.

There also was time for Chica to ask the monk for her name and it just feels like a weak excuse to avoid that dialogue at that point in the story since; their was time in between them running away and the ship running out of gas, there was time between when they ran out of gas to when they landed, there was time when they got captured and when they were in the arena. None of the location changes in the comic could have been fast enough for Chica to not be able to say "Btw what's your name?"  Which would have also been a very compelling moment to foreshadow Other Guy. It makes sense in the first instance of them running away from gunfire to not ask but there was enough time in all the other location changes that i can't suspend my disbelief that they couldn't have started that conversation again.

It really sucks that you guys defaulted but you mentioned continuing this series and I hope you do that in future battles and take these elemental and foreshadowing elements into consideration with your future comics. You guys did a great job and I hope to see more from you two.

# 1   Posted: Oct 19 2020, 10:43 AM
First, I just want to say again, apologies to our opponents, Arts and Radji, for the technical default. I’m extremely bummed about it, but I look forward to seeing what you guys bring to round 2, and this comic was just a blast to make, so I hope you enjoy our take on your characters as much as we enjoyed them. Thanks.

So yeah, quick disclaimer for posterity, this is our side of TTT round 1, in the state it was in prior to the deadline. I considered postponing posting this BB and sprucing it up, coloring it fully and giving it some polish, but I really wanted to show what we accomplished under the 2 week deadline, and stay true to what we would have put up against Radji and Arts. While our official tournament showing is a default, and comparing our comic to our opponents’ entry may be valuable or valid, or not, I can’t say. So feel free to evaluate it however you deem appropriate, and any critiques and feedback are greatly appreciated.


Comic Details -

Drawing Time: 2 weeks
Ended: Oct 26th, 2020
Votes Cast: 20
Page Views: 442

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