Ghosted / Clock&Friction vs. Doannah Donut

Ghosted / Clock&Friction vs. Doannah Donut

Ghosted — Clock&Friction vs. Doannah Donut

by 4:00am

Icon for Clock&Friction50.9%
229 points
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Crit level: Open to any comments or critiques


Icon for Doannah Donut49.1%
221 points
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Crit level: No preference




Critiques & Comments
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Bobo
Web Dev
982 comments
# 12   Posted: Nov 28 2020, 10:46 AM
Spoiler: 4:00am • show
Your last comment made me start to understand why your comics lately haven't quite hit the spot for me. I should mention that I'm 100% on board with C+F having incredibly mundane conversations while executing heinous crimes, and the pointless violence does win some nostalgia points for me.

That said, if your goal is to make your characters as irreverent and offensive as possible because that was something VOID did Back in the Day, I think it's time to evolve with the times. People on VOID today have seen offensive shit for years, and indie comics have made it possible for people to make the most heinous shit off of VOID for a long time. So there really is no comic that could only exist on VOID anymore. In other words, being offensive and nasty isn't enough to impress or entertain people anymore.

Like I said, what really makes your C+F comics shine is the juxtaposition of mundane conversations and hyperviolence; keep that. If you're trying to get people to choose sides in the arguments C+F are having, I think you need to either update your references to things people are arguing about now, or you need to go ham on making controversial opinions seem reasonable. Look at people arguing in favor of lesser-known superheroes who deserve more attention, for example. Part of the issue is just choosing arguments your audience will care about, which can be hit and miss, especially if you're not spending a lot of time talking to other members of the community. I think people can still appreciate the absurdity, but if you want people to try to side with one of your characters, you need more reader buy-in.

That said, like I mentioned earlier, people have become desensitized to violence and shit like that. People these days are either going to laugh at how absurd the situation is, or be grossed out by the entire comic. I'm not sure anyone is going to agree with Clock or Friction and feel weird about it because of what they're doing. So I'd say focus less on trying to win people over to their side, and more on making people get so caught up in the argument that they forget for a second that what these two are doing is actually super fucked up. For me, that's what really makes these comics shine.

Art-wise, I think people pretty much already covered any issues here. I love the gritty feel, which perfectly matches your writing. If anything, maybe you could work on making your speech bubbles a little easier to read? The font can be a bit of an eyestrain. But not much else to critique here.

Spoiler: MrPr • show
I'm not sure where to start with this comic. I enjoyed seeing a bit of Doannah's backstory here, and I had fun with how blasé Clock and Friction were about everything. I feel like you really missed the mark on their characterization, which is funny because it's pretty easy to figure out their behavior: they argue with each other like best friends argue, and they do tons of horrible crime. They seemed way too soft and empathetic in your comic, willing to help Doannah out when they found out her tragic backstory. If it were me, I would have ended with them dumping Old Doannah for being ugly and worn out and going back in time to get with young Doannah. Those two don't care about anyone but themselves, and you could have done more to show that.

Art-wise, I felt like you super dropped the ball with your backgrounds. I had no idea where anything was during this entire comic. Everything was so blurry and empty, you might as well not had any backgrounds. I really want to see you focus on wide shots and establishing shots that do a better job of grounding us in where the characters are in relation to the background. I get that part of it was just vaguely "in the time stream," and it makes sense for that to be blurry and confusing, but the rest of it should have been much clearer. You also seem to rely on a lot of close-ups where your characters are filling most of the panel, which gives me the impression that the camera is following way too close to the characters. That wasn't always the case, of course, but just zooming out a bit, adding establishing details to the backgrounds, and making the backgrounds clearer, would all help a lot.

PS—I laughed out lout at "our dicks are gonna get so, sooooo hard" on page 3. It's just such an absurd thing to say in any context XD

TheCydork
Artist
338 comments
# 11   Posted: Nov 28 2020, 10:09 AM
There’s no need to be mocking. I understood the comic was going to be NSFW and am fine with seeing NSFW content. Just think about how somebody new to your comics might see this battle on the front page, with a title that doesn’t have “NSFW” or “smut” in it, and click it only to be greeted with a pornographic pinup in the thumbs. You’re not warning people of NSFW by using NSFW thumbnails , because they are still being exposed to to that kind of content without warning. There are people who are uncomfortable with sexual content, and also literal children on the site. I personally don’t get why given the site is supposedly 18+, but that doesn’t change the fact that they’re here and I know several are currently active, one as young as 14. This isn’t old Void anymore. You’ve been back about a year now, idk how you haven’t picked up on the different environment by now. So just be considerate and spoiler your shit, dude.

4:00am
Artist
64 comments
# 10   Posted: Nov 28 2020, 03:33 AM
https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/void-storage/comics/6870-1/CLOCKNFRICTIONWH5.jpg

Helis:  Thanks?

Cab: ...Good warning...

Footini:  Y'know,  thank you for showing up, you commented twice, you thought about it and came back..
The fact that you did so, would have made this feel like a win even if I lost. You see, part of my idea of the "charm"  of Clock& Friction is that you're supposed to get caught in their conversations and pick a side and yet feel a little strange for agreeing with someone who would perform the acts that they do. So,  if  you picked a side I achieved one of my comic goals...thanks   Chia-"Cat woman would win."-Feb 14 2011
 "Have fun sleeping on rocks with hobbits...."



Heaven Bat : Well I tried, it could have been better, true.  It could always be better.  ..But I'm glad I made this attempt. I didn't mean to bore you.  I am actually ALWAYS  attempting humor with these guys, sometimes I make a couple people laugh sometimes I bomb..... often times I BOMB...But those people that really get these  absurd tales make my day and I'm glad if they enjoyed it. If they still exist....here. since people have talked about it ,yeah  they DON'T talk about what they're doing whilst they're doing  it...I think that's a silly and annoying trait.... and I'm always trying to convey that they're best friends who debate each other (like the only people who  "get/can stand one another.") they don't need to go over the plan in order to perform it.
I'll do some reading on comedy writing and try to punch up the absurdity of the conversations.. thank you.


Kozicloud: Thanks for speaking directly to me and not around me.  I had a friend once who was deeply into Quentin Tarantino,  he pointed out that people don't talk about what they're doing, they talk about whatever else they're thinking about....Unless the task requires very heavy concentration. So  the idea edges towards that and my trying to convey a closeness between Clock & Friction. All that and I have them ignore a lot of circumstance  to convey that  they are Nihilistic.  I'll split up the bubbles more  that's a good observation.  as for "Donnette"  disappearing: (is there a reason you're calling Doannah  Donette? are you pointing out that I spelled it wrong?  since in the comic they say Doanna and it's "Doannah" or is it like a fancy way of saying Donut,  what is that?) :  She's supposed to vanish by the way side in order for her to have "Ghosted" them.  Like a Lure into a trap she's not the main part...but I can see how that's a negative for a reader. In the end  I'm not really telling Doannah's story, I'm telling Clock & Friction's.

There is more  to them than a pop culture debate, and you saying this proves its time to show a little more than that.  Been working towards it slowly with these guys, trying to figure out how to link and loop the parts that I want. this part of the concept is also that Clock& Friction are supposed to be steadfast characters,  by the time you've met them  they've already gone through the life changing event that makes them "them".

So Last time I'll Ask.. Can we battle  Clock and Friction vs Dashiram?? Please ??
I'll show more of their goals  in that battle....


FluffamusPrime: Thank You That's the perfect distillation of how I wanted it to feel.




"Before I go into crits, 4:00am, you should really give warning for this kind of stuff rather than slapping it straight in the thumbnails :/ "

 Before I go Into responses Cydork ,I'd Like to point out, that  if you understood this was NSFW from the thumbnails , then
 the thumbnails did their job. :/  

You read all of Clock and Friction to see if there was a hook or something redeemable but couldn't find anything...and you read this???Hahahaha.. You read all of  these and you're still like  IS IT SAFE TO READ THIS AT WORK???? HAHHAHAHAHAHH....

Also: I'm of the time where it was uncomfortable to read Void comics at work.  Like, if you're comfortable reading or explaining  this at work is it even a good Void comic?    


 Cydork:  I don't know what you're looking for here,  but I didn't write a whole lot of promises in Clock and Friction's Bio... I promised  they Love Comix. .Drugs.. Sex.. And Debauchery....I think I  hit the target a few times honestly....maybe you're just not my audience...but I think you are....  I  think you're train wreck hooked.  like,  you look at these like  "fuck these comics."  but you wanna see how the bodies get stacked... After  the  scathing review of "what  had happened was.... I realized all you were asking me was  WHY, WHY THIS?!!??



So  years  ago  (throw in the customary "i'm old bla bla" everyone is obsessed with.)  
 
Before he was considered too Toxic  Wei Ingnan ..ingan....i can't spell it right   WEI  
Wei created a forum post in like 2009 I think , this post  challenging  all of the artists of Void  to  create characters  that Broke the comics code.  There was a comprehensive list of acts they'd have to perform in order to break the code...basically create characters.. that couldn't  exist anywhere but Void.. and a sketch book you never show to anyone.. I thought about it for a while and I made these guys....it's  a comic about people  who choose the opposite of altruism, instead deciding to do the   selfish or apathetic thing,  helping only themselves in any situation. if you don't like them that's fine.

Technically you are correct...but that's why I'm drawing on Void ...I'm Practicing ..here.
I'm working out  ideas for angles  and  stories and working on my speed and details and depth and panel spacing. Anatomy is a life long struggle for me.
This is all practice to me.  maybe I'll  try out another character for a while IDK. Thanks for reading.





Monday:   K..........Can I battle Agent Black next  October or No?



Mr Pr1993
Excellent  Work  you did the one thing I've always been  afraid  of  where
 I don't play with time deeply enough but my opponent does...(great, now I have to use time travel all the time)your story was a lighthearted  fun ride and  it ended really well. thank you for the battle it was a lot of fun

Heavenbat
Artist
145 comments
# 9   Posted: Nov 27 2020, 01:30 AM
4am: Art quality-wise, this is pretty god. Nice lines, nice colors, etc. Content wise, though... not a huge fan, sorry <XD; The discussion about Gandalf was... for lack of better word, boring. It was probably supposed to be funny in juxtaposition with the rather graphic things that were going on, but for me it was a bit *too* disjointed from what was happening, and it didn't ever really capture my interest enough to make it worth reading. About halfway through I found myself having to keep myself from skimming over their speech bubbles entirely. I feel like in order to make that conversation worth reading through the rather long-winded conversation, you could've exaggerated it more, punched up the humor a bit more. Hell, go full on Deadpool levels of crazy conversations. As is I could have pictured any two college aged asshole dudebros having this conversation irl, which took away a lot of the humor for me. I won't get too much into my general distaste for the rest of the contents because that's largely just my tastes not matching up with these characters.

Mrpr: I'll be honest, I wasn't expecting to enjoy this as much as I did! You got a couple good chuckles out of me, like when Doannah pulled the gun, and the whole car chase was very fun. I enjoyed the little blurb of backstory we got, though I agree with some of the others that Doannah's 'deformity' could have been pushed a bit more. I honestly thought drawing one eye bigger than the other was a stylistic choice you did, lol. I also gotta admit the idea of 'famous figure gets disfigured and loses everything' is a bit overdone--maybe could've been more interesting if instead of her looks, Doannah lost her trust in people that night, and started on this self-destructive spiral purely on emotional trauma rather than because she's 'deformed' now. Art-wise, one thing I've noticed about your work is that you tend to use a lot of circles--which tends to make shapes and silhouettes blur together a lot. I'd challenge you to start using other shapes to build your art on! Try drawing some characters as more blocky or more triangular/pointy!

Footini
Artist
95 comments
# 8   Posted: Nov 26 2020, 07:35 PM
Btw, Gandalf's better

Kozispoon
Global Moderator
1140 comments
# 7   Posted: Nov 25 2020, 07:39 PM
4AM- It's always great to see an old schooler come back and battle because the content is always chock full of throwbacks and nostalgia. I dug all the cameos of void characters of yesteryear, and the fact they were all dead to inform and easter egg the reveal at the end. Oddly enough I dug the debate Clock and Friction were having had nothing to do with the actions they were engaging in? It gave me Tarantino Vibes where his characters tend to engage in off topic debates. I will agree that it could've been better handled. There was alot to say that was packed into too few panels. You really needed to either shorten the argument or add more pages to make room for it. As it stands it just felt crowded and edged out Donette from even mattering by the end.

I don't know what the true aim or intention was, but if it was to make the most offputting and unsexy smut battle, you succeeded. XD The eating of Donette's head aside, the intentional (or maybe unintentional??) unflattering depiction of her body and the act itself I think kind of went hand in hand with the grisly business of Donette literally losing her head. It's a comic that makes you squirm and wince, but maybe that was the goal. Does it visually give a nod to them being evil? I'm not so sure.

I will echo that I wish there was more to your characters than a pop culture debate. They havent been around for a hot minute, and now that they're back, all I know is that they got beef with TV wizards. I wanna know THEM. What's going on in their heads, what their goals are, if any.

MRPR- As always, kudos for submitting a fully completed comic, but For a five week battle, I think your art quality is not only rushed, but a surprising step back from the progress I saw you climbing. Your backgrounds are gone,  there is nowhere to orient the eye as the reader to figure out where they are, whats happened or why Donette is making demands to be sent back. Back where?
What happened?

I'll also second and third the tragic backstory of your character felt like a punchline with no punch. she tells such a chilling tale of woe and disfigurement, but she currently looks fine. I was waiting for the joke to be that despite being beautiful, she acts like she's still hideouts to behold. Sort of like a super model retiring from the limelight because they have a hangnail. The fact this was placed straight and Clock and Friction, alleged super villain's, actually had pity for her, just all felt out of touch.


Fluffsamasprime
Artist
78 comments
# 6   Posted: Nov 24 2020, 06:47 PM
4:00: Reading this was like being on a road trip to your grandma's house while everyone argues around you when suddenly the driver snaps and takes everyone off roading down a cliff. Hell of a ride/ read

Mrpr: Man, I wasn't expecting the feels and the tragic back story, but it worked well.

After these comics I'm no longer sure how I feel about eating donuts

TheCydork
Artist
338 comments
# 5   Posted: Nov 24 2020, 06:33 PM
Before I go into crits, 4:00am, you should really give warning for this kind of stuff rather than slapping it straight in the thumbnails :/

Spoiler: 4:00 am • show

I know these guys are supposed to be villains, but I just found this nasty. I think if there was some kind of reason behind why the act the way they do, if there was an element of fun to the violence they committed, or if they had charm, I’d understand. But they’re just horrible all the time for no reason, and it’s just unpleasant to read. This kind of character isn’t up my alley, but there are loads of other characters on site who are assholes or do fucked up things, but are still enjoyable to read about. I’d recommend reading some of Colbitzer, Remy Naufrage or The Smile’s comics to give you an idea.

From a technical standpoint there were a lot of issues too. You attempted a variety of different angles here, which is great, but some of the perspective was still very off. For example page 3, panel 4, the counter and booths are heavily tilted towards the viewer while the floor isn’t, making them look like they’re floating in midair. The large panel on page 6 was also strange - the dumpster was at a tilted angle while the stairs were flat on the ground, and Clock’s legs were very short compared to his body. BaM Animation on YouTube did a very helpful video on drawing in perspective that you might wanna look up.

When you’re working with a style that really emphasises muscles and curves, anatomical issues are made that much more obvious, so you should really practice more. I can’t tell if you’ve made Doanna ripped or malnourished, on page 4 the lumps on her abdomen could be ribs poking out or chiselled abs. Her uniform is also drawn in a similar style to Clock’s armour, glued to her body and every outline, but it’s a completely different material.

The comic was also pretty text heavy, like on pages 2 and 5. At first glance, it makes me not want to read or just skip over the text. Editing the dialogue down or splitting the text up into more bubbles would help a lot. The animation on the penultimate page was good though.


Spoiler: MrPr • show

“THINGS ARE NOT FINE” got a chuckle out of me. The story was a little hard to follow though due to the sparse backgrounds. The reveal of Doanna’s past was confusing to me too because she doesn’t look deformed currently? She has big lips, but you draw other characters with big lips too and don’t imply they’re deformed. The differently sized eyes don’t come across clearly either. You probably should have kept the scars if you wanted to go with this backstory, or maybe do something like reveal that she covers the scars with her icing? Like makeup? Just a thought.

Monday
Artist
953 comments
# 4   Posted: Nov 24 2020, 04:43 AM
This was like watchinig a 15 minute long trailer of that Grindhouse preview with the Thanksgiving themed murders and some dude goes around committing /straight atrocities/ over the family dinner table.  Thank god I watched grindhouse by myself at midnight cause then me and this one girl managed to catch each other playing pocketpool in a California movie theater.

MRPR I am reminded of this time my sister walked in on me watching clerks. But it turned out to be a cartoon show clerks. We traded awkward glances and then she left.  

Anyways the reason I'm not doing value crits this time around is because I needed to crack open this box of halloween candies that was waiting next to the Thanksgiving ingredients but it turned out to be my aunt's supply of amphetamines turned to edibles. Please don't tell Duterte or his death squad will come here and shoot my family.

Footini
Artist
95 comments
# 3   Posted: Nov 20 2020, 09:38 PM
It's always fun to eat out with your friends. That was definitely some wild comix there.

And MRPR's side has some pretty good character moments for Doannah.  I got sympathy for the donut lady now.

Cab
Artist
61 comments
# 2   Posted: Nov 20 2020, 01:24 AM
Fair warning There's some NSFW pages in these comics, so be prepared.

Hellis
Artist
260 comments
# 1   Posted: Oct 11 2020, 04:07 PM
Holy shit. Thats some 4:00 stuff I see. I can't wait!

Comic Details -

 
Drawing Time: 5 weeks
Ended: Nov 27th, 2020
Votes Cast: 12
Page Views: 551
Winner: 4:00am
 

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