A Vampire and a Vektran Walk Into a Bar / Raven and Miller

A Vampire and a Vektran Walk Into a Bar / Raven and Miller

A Vampire and a Vektran Walk Into a Bar — Raven and Miller

Icon for RavenIcon for Miller
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Crit level: Open to any comments or critiques
tags: armageddon, armageddon 2020, bar, Hell, kubo, Miller, raven, remy, sandbox, vampire, vektran




Critiques & Comments
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Rivana
Artist
165 comments
# 10   Posted: Aug 11 2020, 09:51 AM
Thanks everyone for the votes, comments/crits.

Also just to clarify. This comic is not a 'filler' though it might seem like so due to the Sandbox making most people forget . It's canon and there will be consequences/lasting effects from this encounter. I tend to not reveal everything in one go as I like to take the readers on a journey with my stories. Sandbox is new and what people know right now may evolve/change. Consider it something akin to a new discovery where we learn stuff along the way.

Once again, many thanks for the feedback! Special thanks to Pyras and Kozi for working with me on this as well. It's been such a pleasure.

TheCydork
Artist
272 comments
# 9   Posted: Aug 6 2020, 02:19 AM
Omg why do I keep accidentally writing really long crits arghh

Spoiler: a lot of stuff • show

Kudos for finishing this so quickly! I know it can be hard to resist the urge to spend ages on something and make things perfect, so congrats on cutting your work time in half, that’s very impressive.

First of all, I LOVE the cover page! It’s very stylish, and although I usually don’t like recap blurbs, this was just short and sweet enough to work imo. You’re also clearly getting more comfortable with this quicker, looser inking style. Characters felt much more expressive and subtle, and gestures felt more organic. I particularly liked when Raven held the knife up to Miller’s neck. The first panel on the last page was great too, I loved the red of the flames reflecting off Raven’s hair on one side with the blue shadows on the other.

Visually, the biggest issue imo were confusing shots in the latter half of the comic. Characters switch sides, the entire bar disappears sometimes in panels where it is actually needed (as opposed to times when backgrounds can be ommitted for closeups). For example, on page 5, when looking at Raven from behind in panel 1, the bar is on her left. So from the front, it should be on her right, but it isn’t. It’s on her left again, as if she’s looking away from Miller in panel 3. The bar also serves as a backdrop for the pair, but it disappears in the second panel, showing instead a table in the background with various cameos, so it feels jarring to suddenly switch back to Raven leaning on the counter with a glass of wine. In later pages, Raven has totally switched sides from being on the left of Miller to the right. Remy and Kubo are also initially behind Miller on page 5, but are behind Raven in the next panel. It seems strange that Kubo would continue to walk after being tapped on the shoulder all the way past Raven before confronting Remy. It’s even stranger because later on, Remy throws the knife from behind Raven... but because she’s switched sides, that means he walked past them and then walked back? It’s very confusing, and like Arts said, the action was pretty out of the blue too.

Speaking of, Arts hit the nail on the head with your writing tbh. I wasn’t really gripped by this. The only information we’re really given in this comic has already been summed up quite neatly at the beginning as well as in Homeward Bound I, and any connection the characters make is moot because their memories will be wiped. Raven and Miller state things far too plainly for the conversation to feel genuine most of the time. Their dialogue also tells us things we already know, such as their abilities and features of the Sandbox, the only new snippet being that damage can’t be taken. I find myself asking, what’s the point of all this?

I feel like there’s also a lot of wasted potential here. For one, the Sandbox can be anything, right? Anything can happen there, but you depict it as a rather generic-looking bar surrounded by empty space, and the characters just.. have a pretty uneventful conversation.* And like Arts said, neither of them bring the emotions they were feeling from previous events to the table, so on a whole this just kind of feels... like filler, I guess? Nothing that happened to them before is impacting them here, and nothing that happens here will impact them afterwards.

*I mean, I personally would rather not see anything set in the Sandbox because to me it’s not very satisfying for characters to forget things and effectively reset after each encounter, but if you’re going to go for it, why not take the opportunity to just go hog? Off the wall bonkers, if the character knows there will be zero negative consequences for anything that happens in there and they won’t remember it. It’s like a dream in that regard.

snager
Artist
53 comments
# 8   Posted: Aug 5 2020, 01:29 PM
I think this was the first Miller comic I read. So now i recognize him by name and it's strange and fascinating to see him drawn in this more realistic style. like bro. He's Real.

this is really close to being front-shelf goods at a comic store! only thing is the Sandbox doesn't have background work going on - but i think it's supposed to look like that. Maybe y'all could have established that it has a shimmering edge or something, just to make things less, like, milky?

ArtsandGoodies
Community Manager
434 comments
# 7   Posted: Aug 4 2020, 08:52 PM
It's good to see you getting faster at comics and figuring out ways to keep your style but also be able to produce more. I also like how you draw Miller's void black effect. it really helps make him feel otherworldly without doing too much.

Story wise I wasn't engaged by this comic. The problem is there is no tension or conflict in conversation. I'll try to explain the issue in my own words, but here is a great video to watch that will give you stuff to think about when writing future conversations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEgsIV98ZmU

the first narration page gives us all the information we need when all the dialogue is also only there to give us information the first page renders it all pointless and just something to gloss over. What the conversation needs is some form of tension to show us more about the characters this can come in multiple ways: The characters are reluctant to give information, they give misinformation, they emotionally struggle to give information, there are plenty of other ways you can establish some tension but the thing is you need to implement some of those so that the reader can be invested in them.

There is also the surprise element of Remy suddenly throwing the knife, you could have built up to it better keeping remy and Kubo in the background of the panels showing the escalation of Remy going to throw the knife. keeping this a background element till he throws the knife would have helped put some more tension in the comic.

Another thing to think about is the composition. If you have a plain conversation you can increase tension by having compositions subtly give dominance to one character over the other. for example on page 5 when the conversation is about how Raven is from another world you could set up the panels and the background to have Raven in a tiny corner of the panel separated from everything else to emphasize the feeling of isolation. Also as a conversation goes on you can change who takes up more space in panels to show they are dominating the conversation giving more intrigue to the comic as well.

Also beyond tension here are three steps to think about when writing dialogue; step one figure out the information you want to be said, step two figure out how that character would say or even if they would say it, step three figure out how their current emotional state would effect what they say. This comic really only has that first step.

Right before this comic Raven was knocked unconscious from a powerful electric blast, the last thing she saw was her only friend finding out about her secret participation in these fights. After such an extreme moment she should still have some emotions about that and it should show in her dialogue and her body language. Miller also just came from an extreme situation  as well being brought back to life by a mythical elder being and is forced to write stories and fix all the wrongs he did. The characters should show hints in their emotions of what they both recently went through.

Writing good dialogue is hard and something I still need to learn but with improving your comic speed you will be able do more scripts and learn more.


Footini
Artist
54 comments
# 6   Posted: Aug 4 2020, 06:40 PM
Remy back at it again with the knives.

You're getting a good balance between getting comics done quicker without sacrificing quality of art.
There's still a little bit of wonkyness with hands and a few of the faces but nothing to ruin it.

Also an improvement with the writing compared to the other Raven comics; the dialogue feels more natural and engaging even when there's mostly explanation on sandbox rules.


Symon_says
Artist
167 comments
# 5   Posted: Aug 4 2020, 12:09 PM
Who would have thought Spiders and Ravens could get along so well? Nice work here. Miller's hand on page 7 could have used a little more love but it really doesn't detract from the story or comic overall. That last page however, there's that punchline. Keep it up! I can't wait to see some Demon/ Raven combat.

Rikun
Artist
89 comments
# 4   Posted: Aug 4 2020, 09:08 AM
This was a nice read! After so much teasing from the RPs it was interesting to see Raven and Miller finally interact in comic canon and I found it to be sweet. The artwork is great as always, though I feel that the action poses could've used another pass to make sure they're as strong as possible.

It was nice to see Raven have a peaceful conversation about making friends before all hell broke loose. Can't wait to see what she'll be up to next!!! As for Miller, it's good to see he gets a bit of a break after getting chewed out by Meredith. Too bad they're both gonna have to survive the hellscape that is Armageddon.

Rivana
Artist
165 comments
# 3   Posted: Aug 3 2020, 07:18 PM
Also I'd like to give a special shoutout to Kozispoon for helping out with the script and story for this one. Pyras and I were having difficulty making a conversation story engaging in comic form and Kozi helped us tailor the script into a more interesting format.

Once again, many thanks Kozi!

Rivana
Artist
165 comments
# 2   Posted: Aug 3 2020, 06:52 PM
Did this using what I learned from Pyras in the Mentor/Trainee Roulette. Normally something like this would take me 4-5 weeks of comic time.  Did this in 2 weeks. I hope you guys like it. :)

Symon_says
Artist
167 comments
# 1   Posted: Jul 21 2020, 03:44 PM
I do expect a killer punch line with a title like this. Excite!

Comic Details -

 
Drawing Time: 2 weeks
Ended: Aug 10th, 2020
Votes Cast: 17
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