Great Escalations, Semifinals / Roxy vs. Wynne

Great Escalations, Semifinals / Roxy vs. Wynne

Great Escalations, Semifinals — Roxy vs. Wynne

by Cab

Icon for Roxy45.2%
523 points
Page 1Page 2Page 3Page 4Page 5Page 6Page 7Page 8Page 9Page 10Page 11Page 12Page 13Page 14Page 15Page 16Page 17

Crit level: No critique desired, comments encouraged

Icon for Wynne54.8%
634 points
Page 1Page 2Page 3Page 4Page 5Page 6Page 7Page 8Page 9Page 10Page 11Page 12Page 13Page 14Page 15Page 16Page 17Page 18Page 19Page 20Page 21Page 22Page 23Page 24Page 25Page 26Page 27

Crit level: Open to any comments or critiques

Critiques & Comments
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# 14   Posted: Jun 6 2020, 07:59 PM
Cab: Hey, it's everyone's favorite keeper of stories! You do seem to be going back and forth between whether his cheek-muscle-flesh runs into his gums or not, and that does make a big difference in how his face reads enough that switching is a little jarring. Wynne did feel a bit secondary as a result, especially since this detour pertained thematically to Roxy, but didn't seem to have anything to do with Wynne or Lord Montigue, so the tragic climax fell a little flat. It would have been really heart rendering if Wynne had played a bigger part in the comic leading up to it. There was some pretty hardcore stuff going on in the climax, and you could have slowed down a bit there to really showcase it.

Astro: ;_; Aaaaagh.... Wow, that was pretty gut wrenching. You made everyone really lovable and then just bit my heart out with dull teeth right there. You really pulled off making that gore punch the reader in the face, too. Maybe I'm a little lost, but I'm not entirely sure what changed inside Wynne. Is that something that will be revealed?

# 13   Posted: Jun 6 2020, 05:04 PM
Cab- shout out to the bards that cursed us for good times

Astro- And now Roxy can die in peace

Global Moderator
# 12   Posted: Jun 6 2020, 01:15 AM
...Wait, this isn't the finals? SURE DO FEEL LIKE A FINALS THO. Geez, you two, way to go completely and utterly ham on this round! I'd say this is way too much work, but what came out of you respectively was such a treat. Whoever wins, omigosh TAKE CARE OF YOURSELVES, don't burn out!

CAB- The themes and characters introduced here really gave me Neil Gaiman Sandman vibes. From the Shakespeare nods to the flashbacks of Jimothy the bard. I like you went an unexpected direction with a heartfelt ending of self sacrifice, but if I had one complaint it would have to be that the relationship between Wynne and Roxy wasn't given enough airtime to really bring that sentiment home. Too much time was spent on Jimothy's tale and Meredith that I felt your main characters got a bit sidelined. It took the wind out of the sails of heart tugging I think you intended for the end. also, while your gore was on par, the impact of your characters demise felt like it fizzled. it became almost comedic with how Roxy's head kept exploding that I think you lost the sentimental tone you were trying to set.

But kudos on the ridiculous pagecount. It's clear you have no issues pumping out pages, but if I could issue a challenge to you, it would be to halve your output and really focus on upping the quality of your line work, as well as editing your level of detail.

ASTRO- I think your bids for eyes to review and give you feedback do you credit.

The both of you utlilized some pretty hardcore gore in your stories, but I think between the two yours was more successful. The build up of chemistry and friendship was such that when the betrayal happened and the confrontation was had, it was made that much more impactful by the sheer horror of poor Roxy's visceral end. I liked that despite it being in vain she yelled in anger before the end.

I STILL think page one needed some spot blacks. That bottom panel especially just bled together into greys that I feel the potential for depth didn't quite make it. It was especially noticiable when we get to page two and you just went ham on the blacks in a dynamic way. Also you already know my confusion with page 14. I had to ask in order to realize Roxy's ghosts was not only chasing a fleeing colbitzer, but what he had in his hands after the fact was a jacket.

Community Manager
# 11   Posted: Jun 5 2020, 04:57 PM
Cab: I really enjoyed the second half of this story it was a great twist for the story and was really interesting. also your consistent ability to produce so much is always impressive.

Don: 27 pages in two weeks is fucking insane great job. Since you showed me the script and used the advice I don't have too much to say about the writing, you made things clearer both visually and motivation wise in this comic so great job.

When it comes to the art short cuts and compositions I think you were fine with this comic and those were necessary for the length of the story you told. There was a lot of simplified backgrounds and mid-headshots but that is the compromise you have to make with such a big comic under such a small timeline, you still managed to make such great backgrounds with just indications and that is something I hope you can teach me at some point. Your art is so good and the quality is consistent enough it's not an issue, you also do so much with your close ups they don't feel repetitive. If you want more detailed backgrounds and constant wide background heavy shots (you still have at least 18 wide shots in this comic which is imo a good ratio) you would go with a shorter story. But you chose a longer story and as such had to make some shortcuts and with art as good as yours those shortcuts aren't that noticeable and it is still a super solid comic quality wise.

But there was two bits that had small issues that messed with the clarity (These and minor and didn't confused me like previous clarity issues you have had).  The first is on page 12 in the bottom three panels both Wynne and colblitzer are looking away from the page to the outside directing the viewers eye to nothing when they could have been flipped to direct the eye to the middle panel (at least wynne's eyes should be flipped for better direction since colblitzers could be directing to the next page).

The second one happened because of your gore bias. On page 22 with ghost dad gets ripped into guts I was confused what happened and thought it was someone else got torn up instead. Not only is it so ingrained into our culture that ghosts typically just disappear into ether, but you also showed this exact thing happening earlier in the comic. I had to pause and it took me a moment to realize you gave ghost dad guts and I was confused as to why that was and how the logistics of that would work. If I wasn't as familiar with your preference for gore I would be more confused. We have our preferences for what we do and sometimes it's easy to just roll with them but sometimes it's good to double check and make sure it all adds up logistically.

Despite harping on those two for a while they are minor and you improved a bunch with your storytelling in this comic great job.

# 10   Posted: Jun 5 2020, 01:41 PM
Wowzers, these comics are both beyond the critiquing level I have at my disposal. So many pages, so many details and, fantastic story arching. Where could either of them go from here?

Cab - You and your inks have always been an envy of mine. The character's and the details in them are more than adequate for my viewing pleasure. Great work and keep rolling!

Astrodile - Your story was so compelling and you murged everything in so well I really can't say nay about it. My biggest concern is how malleable Wynne's character suddenly became. The color and art in previous comics were very appealing, not that it wasn't in this, but it was a sudden style and pallet change that doesn't fit Wynne. Amazing work and I wish you the best!

# 9   Posted: Jun 5 2020, 11:51 AM
These were both good reads, loving the gore in them!

# 8   Posted: Jun 3 2020, 06:52 PM
Definitely agree with Riv, these already felt like final matches. Both of you really went hard for this!

Cab - Good job doing 17 very detailed pages in two weeks! Like Flytee said, it’s clear you put a lot of effort into your backgrounds. I’ve also been enjoying the silhouette title pages you’ve been doing through the tourney.

Astro - Honestly, the pacing was fine for me! I found it very good actually, I really like how you made this feel like a long, built up story, but not boring! It was easy to read while also giving us a good sense of time passing, if that makes sense? There was one thing that did throw me though - the reveal of Wynne’s true form. It just... happened so easily and without much prompting. Yes, Roxy showed Wynne her dad, but it still just felt kind of abrupt. Roxy’s reaction was very casual as well, she barely batted an eyelid at the reveal, which seems strange.

Back to positives though! Dug the vibe of the comic, and your use of cool blues vs red and orange whenever something sinister or gory is about to happen. And man do you draw gore well. It really feels visceral while also staying aesthetically appealing, and not too disgusting that you have to look away. It’s great. Until Roxy’s death that is. That was... yikes, hard to look at, the poor girl :( Some other things I really liked were Wynne’s creepy silhouettes, especially the ones with multiple red eyes, and his double mouth design. Sooo good and well drawn.

Your shading is kinda haphazard though, like pages 8-10 in a couple of panels it just looks like random shapes of gradient colour rather than shadows. A lot of the time, the figures don’t even have shading (unless in extreme lighting of course), leaving it out might have been better. And while I appreciate you have to take shortcuts due to time, I’ve actually been noticing a slight quality drop over your last few comics; I’d say from Loct vs Luz onwards, though you were definitely already leaning that direction even in Toontown. You’ve always been good at using shapes of different colours, gradients and silhouettes to imply backgrounds where there aren’t any, which is a great skill bc you don’t/shouldn’t have to draw full backgrounds all the time in comics. But the ratio of implied backgrounds to fully drawn ones is shifting pretty hard in favour of essentially colour swatches with only a handful of fully formed backgrounds. And for this to work, you also rely a lot on headshots, busts and hand/limb closeups. You do it very well and very artistically, and I actually do like stylistic choice of hand closeups and such, but it feels like it’s happening all the time now. It’s getting really noticeable for me how more and more, the characters seem to be torsos and hands against a gradient/very sparse bg apart from The Important Scenes. Tbh even then, you don’t always draw out the full Important scenes (like in Round 1) and the “camera” is still very close to the characters during the action, which has caused clarity issues in the past. So be mindful not to lean too heavily on this technique.

One other thing that bugged me is that we can clearly see Wynne’s inner struggle between his feelings and his mission - he doesn’t want to kill Roxy. But then he picks easily one of the most gruesome methods possible to kill her. Why? Why rip her face off with his own teeth if he cares about her? It’s a nice spectacle, sure, but story-wise it would make more sense for him to choose a quick and painless way to kill her. His boss (?) wasn’t even there to watch, so it’s not like he was putting on a show for him?

# 7   Posted: Jun 1 2020, 03:15 PM
*comes out briefly from being buried by my own comic*  

This match feels like the finals already. Well done both of you! <3

# 6   Posted: Jun 1 2020, 11:10 AM
you guys absolutely killed it. I can't believe this is a 2-week battle. You are machines.

cab - It's clear a lot of love and effort went into your comic. The backgrounds, as usual, were a highlight for me, excellent detail!
Also, you got old town road stuck in my head, which wasn't something I anticipated going into this comic.  

astro- bravo! I loved this! Dare I say this is my favourite comic from you.

I can't think of many negatives. Admittedly the ghost dad felt underused in the story. Which is a shame since I get the vibe he's supposed a core part of Roxy's character. Some of the mid pages looked a bit sloppy and rushed, the quality drop was a tad jarring. But you made a 27 page comic in 2 weeks, so I think I can get over it haha.

As for the main things I loved,
- The violent ending, it was very impactful. You took the time to build up and earn that pay off...which made all the difference for me. I was squirming in my seat.
- The set up for how these two characters meet was super well done and intriguing. I loved the world-building.
- In the past I've occasionally had to reread fight scenes or complex, busy pages in your comics. But I didn't have that issue here, the art was very clean and the writing was cohesive. Fantastic job!

great battle guys! Thanks for the entertainment

Think Tank
# 5   Posted: May 31 2020, 12:06 PM
Spoiler: show
You followed some of my advice and changed your pen size when inking details, and I appreciate that.  You also varied some of Roxy's expressions, so she seems to be a more believable character.  These changes mattered to me, and I thank you for using those pointers for this story.

Spoiler: show

Have you been holding out on me, Astro?  Wynne has a glamor form, and you never told me?? >:O

This was a more Wynne centered story, and I'm grateful that we're learning more about this boy.  However, the Phoenix Coalition could have been introduced earlier in this tournament (maybe in round 2?).  The concern I have now is, should you make it to the final round, will you have enough time to tell everything you wanted with this story?

I want to applaud the sheer gruesome visuals on page 25.  That bite shot is--
chef's kiss
--so good.  I like the detail of Wynne having two rows of teeth, but that's me liking a good monster design.

# 4   Posted: May 31 2020, 09:29 AM
Yikes, Your round was like a darker version of "A star is born" mixed withe "The Bodyguard", its a crazy good tale I'm smiling, once again you did great my friend :-)

# 3   Posted: May 31 2020, 12:21 AM
Okay this round was a lot of fun and has a lot of music,

One of the first songs-

Ember song-

Some of the songs of the Bard-

and finally the last song -- ,   Thank You Astro I enjoyed your Wynne character and all the other great guest OCs in this round :-)

Global Moderator
# 2   Posted: May 30 2020, 11:14 PM

All submitted! The (Hypothetical) title for my comic is "What You Won't Do, Do For Love."
I apologize for the quality drop, but it's to make up for the page count. The pacing I'm gonna take a crapshot at and say it wasn't great, but maybe I've stared at this too long! I had to cut out about 3-6 pages that might've drawn out certain scenes.

Thanks for battling me Cab, and I hope you enjoy the comic!

Global Moderator
# 1   Posted: May 18 2020, 05:16 AM

Comic Details -

Type: Death Match
Drawing Time: 2 weeks
Ended: Jun 6th, 2020
Votes Cast: 26
Page Views: 1172
Winner: Astrodile

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