Raise the Dead / Lilyfeather vs. Talon

Raise the Dead / Lilyfeather vs. Talon

Raise the Dead — Lilyfeather vs. Talon

by Shen

This comic has not been rated; viewer discretion advised.

Icon for Lilyfeather52%
702 points
Page 1Page 2Page 3Page 4Page 5Page 6Page 7Page 8Page 9Page 10Page 11Page 12Page 13

Crit level: No preference

by Badger

This comic has not been rated; viewer discretion advised.

Icon for Talon48%
648 points
Page 1Page 2Page 3Page 4Page 5Page 6Page 7Page 8Page 9Page 10Page 11Page 12Page 13Page 14

Crit level: No preference

Critiques & Comments
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# 12   Posted: Jul 17 2018, 06:26 PM
Thank you everyone for your comments and thoughts! Theres definitely a few things I did wrong here that I wish I'd done differently. trying to write Lily getting her magic back in the same story as a scar match dug me another drama hole, which I'm a bit sad about since I initially wanted something more lighthearted, so maybe I can talk Badger into a rematch one day~ Lily has been very troublesome for me to write lately and I need to think more about how I want her to come across and how I can better express it. And I do apologize for the very rushed art! There were places I just inked on top of my blobby thumbnails because I didn't have time to pencil. I'll take all of your crits into consideration for the next battle! badger, I love Talon, thank you for battling me and I'm glad youre alright with his scar! I hope Talon and Lily can stay friends!

Community Manager
# 11   Posted: Jul 15 2018, 09:40 PM
Shen: I love your colors and the palette you choose for this it’s great. This was an interesting version of an underworld that I liked to see, also the river was really awesome as well. I didn’t like the story and how Lily was written in this but I don’t have a good explanation as to why, everything I come up with seems to be nitpicky and a lot of it honestly could just be my tastes. I also try to come up with alternatives if I see something off in the comic but every alternative to an issue I see in the writing is already there, so I have no idea why i’m seeing certain things as issues. I guess this just wasn’t for me story wise.

Talon: Page 4 was really awesome with the transition and the way you did the background and the first half of this building up the summoning was good. However the conflict and the climax felt weak. This scar was weak. The scar you gave was a highlight in their hair, this is a character who has been known for changing their hair color. There is even a comic in her recent archive that is involving her mainly just dyeing her hair, so giving her a generic white highlight as a scar was not a good scar. This scar is a less extreme version of a thing this character has done on their own to themselves. A scar should be adding something to the character that they themselves wouldn’t add. Also the scar says nothing about what happened in the fight, if it was the same color as the ghost it may have made more of an impact and make sense. But really it was just a poor decision for a scar which is a problem in a scar match.
Also we didn’t really learn much about the ghost guy since most of what he said was talking about his power, which is not really that an important part of him to learn about in this interaction. If he had done more with his power it may have been interesting but all he did was slap lily which really isn’t enough to say anything about his power or what he does. If he’s only going to brag about his power you will want to show us this power. You could have also shown us his character and expanded on how he knew Talon, or expand on the friendship line and how Talon has no friends. When establishing a new character It’s more important to let us know of their role or of their relationship to the character. Basically we want to know more about the character before we get interested enough to know what they can do or who they are.
Finally a little tip to help you with your word bubbles since you mentioned you use Photoshop. If you have your word bubbles on their own layer you can add a layer effect and the effect you will want is stroke. You will want it on the outside and a solid black, that way your word bubbles will have a consistent line to them which will make your bubbles look much cleaner.

Community Manager
# 10   Posted: Jul 15 2018, 03:45 PM
Dechado: Wait. Remind me how Magic Mayhem's rules worked?
I definitely missed something important on Talon's side, because I don't remember he ever explaining how he got his powers back, so

Yeah Talon has a BB before this that does.  It's pretty fun, I'd check it out.

Just a quick thing that grabbed me during both of these stories...and it's about Lilyfeather.  One thing I didn't understand in either case was why exactly Lilyfeather needed her powers back?  I don't feel convinced?  She's willing to go through such extremes but wasn't her whole thing that she hated how her powers worked?  Wouldn't she attempt to maybe pick up another power set?  Or why does she even need a power set?  Just something that bugged me while reading both.  

# 9   Posted: Jul 9 2018, 06:16 PM
Wait. Remind me how Magic Mayhem's rules worked?
I definitely missed something important on Talon's side, because I don't remember he ever explaining how he got his powers back, so shame on me if I did skip something important.

Seconl. Shame on you. These scars are incredibly tame.
At least you, Shen, have made me feel numb whenever I read a Scar or Death Comic to you.

Is this a compliment or an insult?

Badger, I have not seen you do any other Scar Match, so I cannot scream at you on the type of scar you picked for Lily.

Shen: Your colors are fantastic as always, it was so fun to immerse with Talon and Lily into the Cave. The mood and atmosphere changed intensely! So cool!
I am unsure if you took inspiration from Disney's Hercules when doing the River of the Dead. Whether you did or not, I thought it was fantastic.
Glad to see Lily with her powers again, though I do have a question: She got back her powers and they got powered up, as now she can also see ghosts? Or, is it some... Alternate branch of necromancy?
Seems Talon always had this "ability" to see them ghosts.

Badger: Pretty! Not sure what Font or stuff you use to make the runes, but they look neat.
I must especially compliment the cover, can't quite put my finger on it, but it is really soothing to look at.
Like mentioned at the start, I am probably misisng a bunch of stuff about Talon, because I have no idea who Mordecai is, or who that spirit was supposed to be.
The summoning scene was meant to be stressful and all, but I thought the 4th panel from page 12 was... Awkward.

I think this was a great matchup, thanks for the comics, guys!
Kudos to both of you for the use of color palettes for the different scenes.

Web Dev
# 8   Posted: Jul 9 2018, 02:36 PM
Spoiler: Shen • show
I'm not surprised that I enjoyed reading this comic so much. Lilyfeather and Talon are both lovable characters with tragic backstories that give them a strong source of internal conflict. I feel like you created a very unique relationship between these two, which brings their story alive more than it was individually. As always, your coloring is vibrant and emotional, giving life to everything in beautiful ways.

There were a couple of key areas I think are worth focusing on. First off, I think it would be worth taking some time to specifically practice drawing consistent proportions. This is something I struggle with to no end, so I know how frustrating it can be. But taking time to draw the same characters from multiple angles and in multiple poses with a critical eye for consistency I think could help you feel more confident and give your art a more polished feel. I know some people just seem to have a talent for this while others of us struggle a lot more, and I wouldn't expect perfection, but I think it's worth practicing as much as you can.

Something else I noticed, which I'm having trouble putting into words, has to do with the way you tell your stories. They tend to be very dramatic and centered around character relationships. While this is entertaining, I feel like you might benefit from exploring more stories with lower stakes or more calm emotions, maybe a slice-of-life story that shows Lilyfeather and her friends on an average day, rather than just focusing on major turning points in her life. I think we as readers kind of get the impression that Lily is just constantly going through an emotional rollercoaster—which she probably is, but I'd like to see what it looks like when she's setting aside those major sources of drama to life her everyday life. I don't know if that's necessary or even actually good advice, but I think it's worth thinking about letting us see more stories between those major events in Lilyfeather's life.

So those things aside, I just want to reiterate how much I love your comics, this one definitely included. I've never NOT been entertained by a Shen comic, and you constantly hook me in to want to read your next story. You have a talent for that, and I think it will benefit you well as you do your webcomic or other projects in addition to VOID. I hope you keep up all of the amazing stuff you're doing right now and just continue to improve. I feel like you've come a long way, especially in your coloring, and I want to see you continue to soar!

Spoiler: Badger • show
I love the internal conflict you've given Talon, especially with how much it's increased since getting his powers back. Adding in this spirit who has some sort of history with Talon shows me that things are even worse than what we knew about coming into this comic. I want to know more about what's going to happen to Talon and who this mysterious being is.

Art-wise, I really enjoy your style. I feel like your linework has a unique quality to it that makes things recognizable as yours from just a glance. Your colors, however, I think could use some work. I loved the blues and the candlelight you used when it got dark, but throughout the whole comic, there's a problem with too many colors clashing with each other. For example, Lilyfeather's skin at the beginning is almost the same color as the walls, and her jacket almost matches the blanket right behind her. If you convert the pages to grayscale, you'll notice a lot of very similar shades of gray, preventing any one feature from popping. It makes things feel a bit flat emotionally. I also wasn't a huge fan of the design of the mysterious being; it felt generic, which detracts from the interest I have in his mysterious history with Talon. I hope he gets a more detailed design in the future, but that's just my aesthetic opinion, I suppose.

As far as writing went, I feel like you did a great job of showing Talon's exhaustion in addition to the dialogue about it. That felt real to me, which is stupendous. Outside of that, however, I feel like the characters were almost going through the motions in this comic, like they were just trying to move from one plot point to the next without considering the emotional impact each panel could have. The mysterious being's dialogue was pretty cliché, too. I would have much rather heard him say something very specific that would have only made sense coming from his relationship with Talon. Also, the line "I'm more powerful than you can imagine" came across more edgy than foreboding, since you didn't really SHOW how overwhelming that power might be. And the fact that he was dismissed fairly easily once Lily got the drop on him just made that phrase seem even more like some edgelord thinking they're much more intense than they really are. I almost would have just left out most of that dialogue and had him dismiss Lilyfeather with a sneer or a simple attack. That would have also made her getting the drop on him a bit more feasible, because he wouldn't have even given her enough thought to realize she had something that could actually hurt him.

I think this story has a ton of potential, and I'm looking forward to more about Talon's past with this ghost! Just watch out for ways you can heighten the mood both visually and through your script, and make sure not to undercut dialogue with actions that don't quite match up. Still, this comic was very enjoyable, and I can't wait to see more from you!

Global Moderator
# 7   Posted: Jul 9 2018, 01:48 PM
THIS WAS A GREAT BATTLE I AINT GONNA LIE. I'm SUPER glad we finally get to see these two duke it out like the necromancer buddies that they are.

Shen: Lily looks seriously cute in that outfit, I really want to see more of it tbh! The color schemes you used were great, and the development of the two throughout the comic I certainly enjoyed. I question what kind of magic Talon used to divert the waters in pages 8, 9, and 10, and to even raise Lily out of the water as well? I could understand if the answer to the former would be necromancy but I'm stumped on the latter.
I definitely enjoyed the visuals of this comic, but there were some pretty noticeable drops in quality such as in the second and fifth panel of page 5. The fifth panel is more forgiving because its a comedic moment, but the second panels lack of definition in the characters appearances takes away from what is supposedly a serious moment for Talon during his explanation of his situation. This drop especially impacts your final page as well, from the lack of shading in Talon and Lily in the second panel to them looking more like they're just /doused/ in blood because of the sheen you gave the characters, even though the use of red should've just been to show that they aren't the focus of this panel but rather the environment and cast around them is. Those characters as well, look straight up too blobbish to take seriously. It takes away from an interesting development, and even if you couldn't put much effort into the ghosts because of the time you had left, it would've been nice to see the character look more like themselves then quick thick brush strokes.

Badger: The color schemes for this comic were just as great! The script is straightforward, and I really did enjoy the introduction of a new antagonist for Talon as well as the scar you gave Lily. I question why Lily doesn't ask a /single/ thing about this being they summoned, who knows Talon by his real name and obviously has shown intent to harm him as well as Lily for getting in the ghosts way, instead asking about nightmares? While I'm not expecting an full introduction to this antagonist as well as a deeper dip into Talons past with this critique, it would've been nice to have them at least acknowledge on a final note that this vengeful entity was something that happened and could be a future problem.
In terms of visuals, I have to say on my first read and on my repeated readings afterwards, I visually couldn't get invested in the action whatsoever, it all felt like it was on the stiff side. This vengeful enemy, his emotions aren't articulated satisfyingly enough for me, the facial expressions can only do so much when this dudes entire body looks entirely lax and stiff. There's alot of body language missing that could've been used here, and my best tip is to definitely be more expressive with the poses of the characters. Let those shoulders be raised, let those arms flutter around in fury or in that daunting attitude a bit more-- Otherwise he looks just too slack shouldered and casual for someone who wants to straight up kill someone.
I want to follow up Pita on the comment of adding more personality to your backgrounds, because even if you didn't add enough to distinctly tell whose room it is, it would've been nice to see how the constant attempts of summoning help for Lily or the effects of the attack by the ghost affected the room. Papers and books fluttered about or something like that, because your backgrounds start looking even more empty past page 8 or so.

# 6   Posted: Jul 9 2018, 10:43 AM
I liked both of these comics, and it was really hard to make a judgment, so I'll let you know how I managed to make my decision:

I was not surprised and kind of did expect the ending to Lily's comic. I have a similar investment than I did before this fight.

I was VERY surprised at this mysterious entity in Talon's comic, and I definitely want to know more about him.

That's what it came down to, since y'all are really evenly matched on most else.

Great comics, y'all!

Think Tank
# 5   Posted: Jul 9 2018, 10:29 AM
Lemme blow off the dust from my keyboard.  It's been, what, two months since I put in a good ol' critique?
Who even keeps track of these things.

So a showdown between two of our teen necromancers.  I liked that these both followed a similar premise of Talon helping Lilly regain her powers and she comes in contact with dead people in the process.  The outcomes are different, and that's absolutely fine.  Let's go into each person's work to dig a little deeper, so to speak.

Lemme grab my shovel.
SHEN: Nice outfits for these kids.  Lily is really playing up the magical girl look, maybe in anticipation of getting her powers back.  It's good that you addressed a complaint a few of us had when she and Holden became official--how does a relationship between a summoner and her summon work out?  Is it even healthy?  The contrast in attitude between Lily and Holden/ Lily and Tiffany is a good one to explore more of, and it's something I want to see.

Nice choice in colors for your Underworld atmosphere, too.  I like a spooky cool color combo.

Now onto what needs improving.  Please take this as the crit that it is, but
work on your hands.

Colors are fine, dialog is fine, but the hands need work.  Reference pictures will help tremendously with this.  If there's a pose you can't find online, use your own as reference.  Snap some pictures,  break down the construction, and just work on those hands because they are one of the most expressive parts of the body.  When Talons hands swap from more bulky to more boney within the same story, and when fingers bend in a way that just isn't possible for a human hand to achieve without breaking bones, it's something that's very noticeable.

Unless he's double-jointed, but that can't be used to explain everyone's hands.  Talon's just the example for this comic crit.
BADGER: Continuing from your last comic!  Niiiiice.  I like how you played with the lighting on your characters, giving Talon some red bits to his hair.  AND we got an angry ghost out for vengeance.  I wanna see what happens next as we go further into Talon's story.

But a couple things--
- Whose room is this?  This is either Lilyfeather's dorm at school or Talon's place I guess, but the best way to reduce that kind of confusion is to give the interior design some personality.  I see some posters on the walls, but what's on them?  I'm not asking for details in every interior shot but just enough in your establishing shot to let us know where we are.
- Lily's got a streak in her hair now.  That's the scar?  Are there more details to this then just a change in her hair?  Is this something that's permanent or can Lily dye it out?  I don't mean to nitpick this scar decision, but it leaves me unsure about how permanent the effect is on Lily.

And that's it, crit's done.  If I've dug a hole deep enough, let me hide out here and see what you got for your next comics.

The Bent One
# 4   Posted: Jul 1 2018, 02:53 PM
Lilyfeather in a scar match makes me VERY NERVOUS. Do it up big, guys

# 3   Posted: Jun 18 2018, 01:43 PM
The long awaited battle!!
I'm so hyped for this ~

Happy January 17th! ACAB -Reecer6
# 2   Posted: Jun 17 2018, 07:48 PM
and it only took five thousand years to happen

# 1   Posted: Jun 17 2018, 04:15 PM

Comic Details -

Type: Scar Match
Drawing Time: 3 weeks
Ended: Jul 15th, 2018
Votes Cast: 32
Page Views: 1342
Winner: Shen

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