Armageddon 2014

Armageddon 2014

Armageddon 2014

49.3%
1998 points
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50.7%
6162 points
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Critiques & Comments
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Cracking Skulls
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344 comments
# 76   Posted: Oct 8 2014, 07:48 PM
ok

Thrillerflamedrag
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1 comment
# 75   Posted: Oct 8 2014, 05:31 PM
Bayou and Bog past is shown that they used to be human and cat. Bayou got Bog as a kitten and their bond grew until Bog got run over by a car.

DEDieckmann (SkullcapComix)
Artist
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462 comments
# 74   Posted: Jul 1 2014, 11:10 AM
Sorry for the long delay in commenting. I made sure to get my votes in while that was still open, but have been side tracked by my brother’s wedding this past week and also learning to color.

ANYWAY, after going over things in my head for a while, I have come to the conclusion that I don’t need to write a novels-worth of comments because for the most part, everything has already been said, addressed, acknowledged, what have you. What I can say is I thought this was a kick-ass Armageddon, and really, as long as everyone had fun and no one let a few bad eggs spoil it for them, that is all that counts. I enjoyed both comics for different reasons. That is not to say that they were flawless, but this is Void, a place for learning and getting better, and I NEVER go into a battle expecting to see a “professional” polished comic, as that expectation would be ridiculous. As long as it isn’t glaringly terrible (or missing altogether), I am usually a happy camper.

THREAT:
You guys put together a pretty sweet comic, with a pretty cool villain to boot. I enjoyed the concept, and the art and coloring were also very nice. Here and there I would run into a few action panels which would confuse me as to what was actually happening (which I believe have all been called out already, so no need to go over that again), but overall it was a smooth read, and I liked it. Was I sad that Void City got screwed? Of course, who wouldn’t be? Overall, I would have loved to have seen at least a little bit more of a fight/struggle with the Defenders, however at the same time, the point of Armageddon is to present a threat that is near-unstoppable, so it isn’t necessarily required that they struggle or use great effort to defeat the Defenders…. It is what they are there to do in the first place. I also understand why this was not included, and although I still would have loved to have seen it, it still worked regardless. My only other comment would be similar to Toast’s, in that at times, it felt like it was expected that the audience already knew certain things, or who people were/what they could do…. I think a LITTLE more set up for the Defenders before they got defeated would have been nice, but still, overall, I was able to gather what was going on by the end of it. I liked the Threat too, didn’t really see any problems with Bayou or Bog really at all. The one thing I tend to think with most of the Armageddon threats is that I wish we could see more of them before the actual event itself, but then again, the surprise of them just showing up is probably part of the point, so that might just be me wanting to read more cool stories is all. I can’t wait to see both of your next works, respectively.

DEFENDERS:
WOW, Holy Page-count, Batman! Don’t get me wrong though, I in no way think a long comic is a bad thing, ESPECIALLY when it is a complete comic as this was. Sometimes when you have multiple artists switching off, it can get confusing, but I had no problem reading this through the artist jumps, which again, very impressive. There are DC and Marvel books that don’t handle switches that well, so that is something. I think all of the characters worked together well, and each one contributed equally to the story of defending the city. I absolutely LOVED the part where they got to the “Index” and explained how multiple continuities can all exist together at the same time, effectively making almost every comic on the site (win, lose, beyond, event, etc.) make sense. I thought that was amazing, and had a HUGE smile on my face while reading that part. With that said, I do think there were a few areas that could have been improved without taking away from the story. I know the huge text-dump in the middle has already been addressed numerous times, so I won’t get into that again. I realize it was necessary to explain exactly what was happening, and once you wrap your head around it is pretty cool, however I just wish there had been a way to explain it in maybe 1 or 2 pages tops, with far less text. I don’t know HOW it could be done, but I do think it could have been, with more time, though I know that isn’t always a luxury we have to work with. The one other thing I would say as maybe a consideration for the next Armageddon…. I tend to think of Armageddon’s as somewhat the same type of thing as Dragonball Z movies. Awesome one-off adventures, with new villains and threats that are self-contained. In my opinion, I don’t necessarily think they are the place for the Defenders to stop the story cold for pages at a time, discussing their own stories. I mean don’t get me wrong, I am ALL FOR world-building, however at the same time, there is a task at hand, and people shouldn’t be sitting around talking about their own characters issues for pages at a time. I think the story could have kept a LITTLE more on track, with introductions that get across what we needed to know about everyone involved, while not also side tracking the story, if that makes sense? With an event as huge as Armageddon, and with the time limit, as well as the working together limitations involved, I just think it would make the stories easier to accomplish, but again, maybe that is just me. That said though, I still really enjoyed the comic, and found that some of the things other people didn’t enjoy as much were not as bad as made out to be.

I honestly think you were all winners in this year’s event, Threat and Defenders alike. You both put out a huge amount of work, in a short amount of time, on top of jobs, school, and other projects, what have you. That is something you should ALL be proud of. Can’t wait to see what is in store for next year.

Cracking Skulls
Global Moderator
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344 comments
# 73   Posted: Jun 24 2014, 12:48 PM
Thanks for the feedback Nina! This was definitely a new thing to work on and I can see how it's jumpy and a bit confusing to follow. My teammates and I did our best to keep quality throughout the story consistent but yeah some things could have been handled much better.

neens
Approval Committee
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259 comments
# 72   Posted: Jun 24 2014, 12:33 PM
I know I'm a little late to the party but here goes!

threat: I felt this was lacking in some ways. visually it was pretty good though! some panels looked sloppy though. I didn't feel the defenders got all the screen time they needed. some definitely had more of a role, and it made the others feel like extras that coulda been swapped with anyone. the backstory that was provided didn't feel like enough either, and just kinda jumped in at the end there. overall nice though!

defenders: the flow in this is way off, it feels so jumpy. I was also having problems reading through the whole thing, and I'm gonna hop on the quality over quantity thing. certain parts felt confusing and unnecessary. though, I'm impressed that it more or less appears to be complete on all sides!

The Bent One
Artist
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564 comments
# 71   Posted: Jun 20 2014, 05:30 PM
THE Angie: David, let's just do a cat tank comic about cat tanks and sell them at cons. It'll be the next big thing.
Quote

I'd buy that. I assume the Cat Tank is operated by tiny soldier cats?

Angie
Council
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1937 comments
# 70   Posted: Jun 20 2014, 05:11 PM
David, let's just do a cat tank comic about cat tanks and sell them at cons. It'll be the next big thing.

Bobo
Web Dev
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893 comments
# 69   Posted: Jun 20 2014, 05:07 PM
Monday sent me a missing first page and page 2 with words in it, so I guess read the defenders' comic again!

Cracking Skulls
Global Moderator
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344 comments
# 68   Posted: Jun 20 2014, 04:25 PM
With Arma finished, I wanna say again, thanks to everyone who's commented, WILL comment, and to angie and david for a great battle! Hoping for a new Armageddon in a year or two!

DEDieckmann (SkullcapComix)
Artist
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462 comments
# 67   Posted: Jun 20 2014, 11:37 AM
I got my votes in last night before it ended, and have read through both twice now. I am going to let them settle a bit, digest some.... and then work on some comments. I want to see what resonates for me, and as they are both time travel pieces, I tend do think about those kinds of stories a bit before making a final decision. There are a few things I want to discuss, and a few things I think were totally awesome as well. Overall, I think this was a great Armageddon, and both teams should be happy with what they turned in. More to come, as soon as I have formulated the correct words into a comment/critique that makes sense.

Monday
Artist
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932 comments
# 66   Posted: Jun 20 2014, 10:27 AM
CAT TANK WOULD HAVE BEEN GLORIOUS !

amazingdavid
Artist
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441 comments
# 65   Posted: Jun 20 2014, 10:18 AM
Am I allowed to post the BnW pages somewhere while voting still goes on? For Pocky to see...maybe I can send direct or something .  Anyway I like the points that are being raised.  At least there's something worth talking about!  

I've always used Void as a way to practice something that I want to do professionally.  If you look at the comics I've created...none of them are artistically consistent. I'm always trying something I'm not good at or a technique/medium/story that I generally wouldn't send to a publisher (excluding the anthology submits ...but that's mostly cuz I like making stuff that Heather will be stoked to colour!!) VOID for me has been a proving ground. It's like open mics for comedians or battle of the bands for bands. You don't truly win anything if you win and if you lose you know what may or may not work. I learn something from every comic I make. Even if it's just "hey I can finish a comic"  Heather and I aren't kids wishing to make comics anymore we are comic creators having fun on VOID...distinction...Monday had a great assessment...davangie was obviously focusing on action and  visual consistency using a streamlined story to facilitate that. Defenders wrote a great story (although I admittedly skipped the info dump in the middle) that focused on character relationships and delving into the threats motivations there was strong albeit schizophrenic art present.

I enjoyed drawing the defenders...and coming up with ways my style could work for their designs. I feel it's disingenuous to force inherently separate groups into some contrived team up. So we didn't. We also didn't kill them ...we just kinda made them Goth looking  and let them destroy the city ;)  personally I wish I had had more time to draw Mortidos Mars and Xias possessed versions some more (I had this idea for a Cat Tank...that I had to cut for time) anyway...stories can be told in multiple ways ...one with lots of exposition and words ...and other with direct consistent actions. You rarely can do both and get away with both and we chose the latter.  I'm going to blame it on growing up in the 90s.   Or you know...being old.

But at the end of this all Heathers colours are dope...our story was ridiculous...and my lines benefit greatly from Heathers immaculate touch.

Angie
Council
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1937 comments
# 64   Posted: Jun 19 2014, 08:11 PM
Thank you for the crits and comments, guys! Also thank you defenders for a great battle!

Kevin Birtcher
Allfather
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289 comments
# 63   Posted: Jun 19 2014, 05:44 PM
Both sides seem to come at this with an expectation the audience is familiar with the characters and recent events of VOID-continuity.  As an *ahem* infrequent reader, it would be beneficial to have some additional information in the form of text boxes or casual conversation to recap crucial (mostly character) information.

Threat:
I generally like the art, though there are a few places where it's a bit difficult to determine exactly what's happening.  Page 33 is a prime example.  The story is pretty good too, covering everything while feeling like a much shorter comic.  If anything, I'd say the combat is rather short, with nearly half the comic being setup, the fight itself is over rather quickly.  Even then, I'm a bit confused as to why the fight happens at all, when they could have just skipped to the events of Page 45 as soon as they appeared in the past.

Defenders:
This was definitely a slog to get through.  I'll admit - there's entire sections where I have no idea what's happening in the story or the art.  I understand the broadstrokes though, and have two general comments.  1) Parts of this felt like a continuation of personal storylines rather than focusing on the event itself.  Which leads directly to 2) A significant portion of this could have been cut without adversely effecting the story at all.  The page count is actually acting against you because so much is happening that's not tied into the core story and conflict.  This is certainly an ambitious effort you should all be applauded for, but I think a tighter script would have resulted in an overall better comic.

Bobo
Web Dev
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893 comments
# 62   Posted: Jun 18 2014, 07:07 PM
Wow! Both of those were great reads! I'll have to give a more in-depth review later, but I really enjoyed both comics. :)

Shen
Global Moderator
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1276 comments
# 61   Posted: Jun 18 2014, 06:41 PM
I guess I'm just a little confused... why a long comic is so bad?? We had six weeks and there were six of us- of course there's going to be a lot of pages. I don't think we sacrificed quality for quantity at all. We told the story we wanted to tell. Is it perfect? hell no. It could have gone through another re-write or two and yeah like Kura said the characters tend to split off into groups a bit more than is liked but what we wanted, and what I think we achieved, is a story that not only tackled the plot but was also a character piece. I mean, this whole site is character pieces, isn't it? Like, we're all here to tell the story of our character and to improve our comic art, and I think we did both, I think we did some of our best art here and some of our best storytelling- not THE best, but not the WORST, certainly. We wanted everyone to get a moment to contribute to the plot and to advance their own story. And I think we did that. But I mean- I don't want to tell anyone their way of enjoying comics is wrong. But I don't think our way of writing comics is wrong, either.
And I don't think nice comments are "backpatting", either. Sometimes it helps to point out what people are doing wrong at the same time you are pointing out what they are doing right, and I think that has just as much value to help someone improve. I mean, we're here to improve but we're here to have fun too, and I didn't dedicate six straight weeks on this to be told I suck at everything, I want to hear what people liked about my stuff, as well.

TheNabster
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8 comments
# 60   Posted: Jun 18 2014, 02:01 PM
Maaaaan. I will never get to slap my votes down before the voting ends, grumble mumble week probation before I can vote period, that makes me sad, but I can voice my clearly objective opinions in these comments instead.

BAYOU: Colours are great, shading is great, the art in general is really good and detailed and other positive adjectives so no problems there, the characters were well represented in the style and the villain/protagonist I liked the design of a lot anyway so big up for that part. The story though ... Eeeeh.

I will be honest, didn't really like it, things just appeared and then they were dealt with really easily, it never felt like there was any /effort/ from the threat to actually fight dudes, it seemed like as soon as a challenger appeared, they got their collective shit pushed in because the guy was broke as shit in maybe 2-3 pages, a story that works well from the perspective of the people fighting said threat, but from the threat itself, it was kind of a dull affair, and just left me feeling that it was somewhat rushed.

 It wasn't a terrible story but I felt like it could have been drawn out a little; maybe some plot points expanded and some other plot points axed (Was the future selves showing up necessary, when they were dealt with as fast as they appeared?) make it look like that villain is at least trying to make it look like a equal fight when it clearly wasn't, that sort of thing. Make it an actual FIGHT instead of an adventure in shooting fish in a barrel, with a side of seal clubbing with a war-hammer

So I would conclude, loved the art, but the story needed some work. I would rate roughly 7.5/10.

DEFENDERS: Other end of the Spectrum, the art, schizophrenic I think is a good word, I don't want to make offense but I felt some of the art was better then other parts. But otherwise there was nothing glaringly bad about any of the art as a whole, just a little lacking in colour in parts, and my own personal tastes.

Story how ever, fantastic, maybe a little on the long side but from the perspective of the people actually fighting it, an overwhelmingly powerful villain is actually engaging to watch a fight against. It's always nice to see just how much peoples shit are getting ruined by a huge bad guy, before they buckle their pants and and start fighting back and Hoo-ly Shit that was a fight that was worth building up for definite, and it was built up extremely well.

 I will agree that weird time shit explanations maybe took a little much of the comic, and most of that particular chestnut went over my head, but, the story; established the threat and how powerful he is, built up on that with some multiple city wide devastation and characters getting their shits slapped in earlier fights, threw down the stakes of just how bad it would be if this guy won, and then brought it on home with some engaging, climatic fight scenes and a satisfying ending.

So in conclusion, the art fell a little short of the threat, but the story brought it back and then some, I would rate it a solid 9/10

And good show in general by everyone who took part, I will be looking forward to next years Armageddon.

      Edited Jun 18 2014,  02:05 PM by TheNabster

Monday
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932 comments
# 59   Posted: Jun 18 2014, 01:14 PM
Okay.
 Cool.
Let's talk about the Arma that Angie and David took time off to do. Cause they would appreciate that.

The Bent One
Artist
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564 comments
# 58   Posted: Jun 18 2014, 12:53 PM
Monday: I totally understand what you're saying. Of course not everyone here is out to become a professional one day. People are going to put the amount of effort into their work that they feel they should. Some people realize they don't want to spend quite as much time and effort on their comics as others.

I guess I went a little overboard saying that VOID is facing an epidemic of unfinished crappy comics. That isn't the reality. But I do feel that too many positive comments on a comic that clearly needs some critiquing is not an ideal situation. Yes, some people are in VOID just to make fun comics and battle other artists to have a fun time. My purpose is to "try and get better". So I view the comics on VOID a little different. But that doesn't mean that I've got the only correct outlook on things.

What I'm trying to say is this: I feel like there should be more constructive critiques on comics coming from the community. Whether you're making comics just to have fun, or to try and make a career out of it, making those comics in an environment that will offer advice on improvement is never a bad thing. The "favoritism and fanaticism" that Wei was talking about is something that should be discouraged.

I totally agree with you that different readers won't get the same level of entertainment out of a single comic. I personally was VERY entertained by the defenders' comic. I love big epic shit like this. That doesn't mean I gave it all tens. That kind of voting is not helpful.

In general, I feel that artists and creators should strive for quality in their work. I understand that not everyone in VOID is out to make the best comics ever. It's a fun environment, not a college illustration class where you face failure it you're not good enough.

I agree with you. If you're here to have fun, have fun. If you're here to get better, get serious about it. The people who really want to make comics are the people you see making comics. I applaud them for that effort they are making.

Monday
Artist
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932 comments
# 57   Posted: Jun 18 2014, 12:33 PM
Objectively speaking: I do not feel that there is any malicious voting here. If there is the mods have the power to take care of it. If there is spam voting it is taken care of by the 1 week grace period, and the 3 values that a comic is judged on; Entertainment, Creativity and Quality already address the basic qualifications that a comic needs to be good. Void's voting system is actually perfect the way it is.

Angie and Dave's comic is a lightning war of amazing pages with great visual quality that rides on a streamlined but narrow plot. For those who do not wish to read long comics and love pretty pictures and favor amazing action they can favor that comic for what it is.

Ours was an insanely acrobatic attempt at making sure everyone is written together to serve a purpose in the story. Every character got a time to shine and Bayou's case was examined very thoroughly I cannot say our exectuion was its best because I'll admit that there was a lot of bugs with our way of working. So I agree with Wei we could have used editing. I cannot address his concerns about it being unreadable because the experience is different for everyone. But I lament that I could not please his comix heart. all I can hope for is that someone really /did/ enjoy what we got. For reasons that I would hope someone would like a comic for.

Monday
Artist
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932 comments
# 56   Posted: Jun 18 2014, 12:23 PM
Bent: No we are not actually suffering from any epidemic of any sort.  No one is patting each other on the back, in fact the opposite is true that no one is talking because we all think void comics should be one kind of thing.

I understand what Wei is saying and he is probably speaking from what he's observed from voting patterns. People vote towards a subjective lens and sometimes determine their points based on how they feel towards an artist. While the ideal scenario would be to be completely objective with one's own opinion of a comic an opinion will still always be an opinion and that is what is driving the scores and it could very well be what could drive someone's deciscion when they walk in a comic shop. "Do they like the comic ? Do they like the artist ? Does it even interest them and is it in a genre they are interested in ? " These are factors that determine's someone's decision and I feel that even though there is a community and fan influence to votes it isn't far away and malign from what already exists in the real world.

Ever since void started the comics have always been amateur attempts at even completing comics. To say that people could even finish comics is great on its own but to be completely honest no one is getting paid to do this stuff and to expect a professional level comic everytime is again, ideal but ultimately faulty.  It runs on hopes and dreams alone. And yeah maybe a compliment or two would keep us going. We're not a facsist state. This isn't a government institution. We're just a buncha bored kids that WISH we could do comics and want to show and prove it !  The lessons, the drive to improve- it all actually comes about later, when someone decides to take their time here seriously. So I would have to strongly disagree.

Making comics should be fun and fulfilling. And backpatting should not be confused with constructive criticism nor should even count as such, tough love is fine but hate voting is not. People should be making comics they like despite what the community thinks. It is different for everyone where they are at. I did not spend 10 years on void to "try and get better" it was just happenning. Comics were being made and everyone had a say at what it should be. So I'll say whats mine:  There is a rating system that accurately portrays where people are with their comic, and there is a comments box that we painstakingly click on everyday hoping that someone fucking vindicates the time we spent on our work. That's the fucking reality.

Angie
Council
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1937 comments
# 55   Posted: Jun 18 2014, 11:30 AM
Yeah that's much better! Thanks for clarifying, and yes I do agree with that.

The Bent One
Artist
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564 comments
# 54   Posted: Jun 18 2014, 11:29 AM
Angie: Yeah, I didn't mean you should be making comics just for VOID, and not yourself. I meant that you should keep in mind that other people will be reading your comics, so you have the opportunity to entertain people, not just make comics for yourself as practice. Although that is was VOID is here for.

What I'm trying to say is that experimentation aside, creators should still make an effort to not drop the ball on the quality of the comic just to get it done. You and everyone else on the site know that I had problems with this, which is why I'm just not making comics on VOID right now.

Angie
Council
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1937 comments
# 53   Posted: Jun 18 2014, 11:12 AM
Bentone-I don't think that people should be of the mindset that they're making comics to impress others. I know that's not what you meant, but it's sort of how

"It's fine if the comics you are creating are for your own enjoyment, but that's no excuse not to make them GOOD COMICS. The purpose of making comics on VOID is to make them FOR THE COMMUNITY."

comes across. Making stuff you want to make is more important than pleasing the community. If you are truly passionate about what you're doing and work hard on it, there will be people who enjoy it. Even if it's not the majority and even if it nets you a loss, that's okay. Working hard to improve and to better yourself is far more valuable than a pat on the back. I've done that very thing my entire time at Void and it must have worked out if I'm working on comics for a living now.

Again, I'm pretty sure that's not what you meant, but I feel it's important to make that clear. Ultimately pleasing some people on Void is not going to get you a job in comics and   because of that, it's a good idea to experiment and do what you want while you're on here as there are no repercussions.

      Edited Jun 18 2014,  11:21 AM by Angie

Pennydox
Artist
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235 comments
# 52   Posted: Jun 18 2014, 08:39 AM
Time for everyone to make a new void character :P

I can agree with the favoritism, although I will say I started to love Bayou and Bog a lot more when I read the comics more than once.

Regarding consistency, the process with Dav/Angie is very consisten (you got each other's strengths mashed together), and of course it's inevitable with six different people with different types of work to have a few inconsistencies. One thing I thought broke any form of consistency is the choice of artists doing the artwork. Jong's work stands out too much compared to everyone else's work, mostly because of intense linework and the use of traditional medium. It pops out like a sore thumb and breaks the unity of everyone's work. Like, I notice the flow from kura's comic to Jong's but suddenly whatever comic preceding it would break the mood. It's mostly the inconsistency with color.

I'm used to reading over hundreds of pages of comics in one go, so it wasn't any issue for me to read at all. Usually long void comics aren't my thing, but I read the entire defender's side in one sitting and I wasn't bored at all. I don't think there would be much I'd want to cut out of the comic either, I really liked all the parts.

On attacker's side, there's a very consistent unity. I felt like the same textures were overlayed a lot..maybe too much, and chapter breaks made the story go by really fast; I think if it didn't have as many chapter breaks, it would actually feel longer because my concentration is completely immersed in the story. Props to amazing linework, I am curious to check out how it originally looked without color :3

Majikura
Artist
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466 comments
# 51   Posted: Jun 18 2014, 08:14 AM
thank you for that, i could actually read that one.

although i think everyone that knows me knows that i think negatively on things i work on, this one included.  No, I'm not ENTIRELY happy with the result.  I'm just glad it's done.  As far as i can tell, as I was the one always behind schedule and at the end, everyone had to cover for my blunder as well as my own shitty art to begin with.  I am mostly behind everything that is wrong with this comic and did not deserve to become a defender in the first place yet somehow tricked all of you that a D-rank artist like myself could do it.

But that's enough praising myself.  Here's what I think of our entry:

Page count doesn't bother me.  It never does.  Nobody ever complains about Underwood's comics "being too long" and I'm not going to complain about this one.  The problem is the lack of unity between the characters.  The defenders spend zero time with each other, they get picked up one by one and don't experience the story together as a team.  This problem persists in Angie/David's comic as well.  They are rarely together in one shot to fight/fail/emote etc.  Even at the end, the battle is split between three groups of people: Mortido, Veronica/Xia/Meddler, Miller/Grey/Mars. I think Xia is the only one who interacts with every defender.  There's no interaction between Grey and Mars, Miller and Mortido, or Veronica and Mars (which I realize now is a wasted opportunity to make a dumb joke).

Cracking Skulls
Global Moderator
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344 comments
# 50   Posted: Jun 18 2014, 07:43 AM
I think both my teammates and our opponents have pros and cons  with the comics we have on plate, and all of you have done wonderful to point them out. There are points I agree with Wei,  and points I don't agree with, but Wei said his piece and im grateful for his honesty! Thanks to everyone whos commented so far!

The Bent One
Artist
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564 comments
# 49   Posted: Jun 18 2014, 05:20 AM
Real talk from Wei. It's hard to hear, but it's true.

Seriously, he brings up extremely valid points. There has always been a tendancy towards favoritism for characters currently in the limelight on VOID, but rooting for a character instead of evaluating a comic for it's strengths and weaknesses isn't the way to go about the voting/critiquing process.

If all you ever get is people fawning over your character and the incomplete or poorly written comics you produce, then you will never improve. In fact, you will only get worse. No one telling you things that need to be fixed will lead to denial and bad habits, from which genuine criticism will only make it harder to see your mistakes and correct them.

There have been too many half finished comics and weak examples of storytelling recently on VOID. I was part of this problem, so I removed myself from creating anything until I can get a better handle on my creative process. I refuse to make shitty comics and lose my love for creating them.

It's time for the active members of VOID to take an honest look at what they are doing with their characters and their comics. Like Wei said, are they for you or for the audience? It's fine if the comics you are creating are for your own enjoyment, but that's no excuse not to make them GOOD COMICS. The purpose of making comics on VOID is to make them FOR THE COMMUNITY. So that other creators can enjoy, critique, and help you improve your comics. (EDIT: I'm not saying that you have an obligation to make comics for the site just so other people can enjoy them. You should be making them because you love comics and want the feedback of the community to get batter at them, both artwise and storywise.)

Without that, we might be doomed to start circling the drain. It's no longer OK to submit half finished bland comics, or to sacrifice quality over quantity to get a comic finished. Almost everyone currently active on VOID knows what it takes to write and draw a comic. It's hard work. Why bother putting in all that time and effort only to drop the ball and upload an incomplete comic that no one can really enjoy? Or a sloppy version of your original vision for your comic, that you feel bad about creating and that no one can really enjoy reading?

I agree with Wei. We are dangerously close to dislocating our collective shoulders from all the back-patting we have been giving ourselves as a community.

      Edited Jun 18 2014,  11:30 AM by The Bent One

Majikura
Artist
icon
466 comments
# 48   Posted: Jun 17 2014, 11:11 PM
I have no idea what Wei just said.

Merchant
icon
2 comments
# 47   Posted: Jun 17 2014, 08:08 PM
First comment. :)
Defenders. I personally had no trouble reading the comic, and found it very enjoyable. But that may be due to thoroughly enjoying the work of Grant Morrison, so overly complex often bizarre plot lines are not unusual to me.

You guys had a good blend of main plot and personal character drama and story progression. The exposition scene was a bit too wordy. I believe the concept could have been summed up a lot cleaner, but the art for the explanation was brilliant.

The art style shifting was a little jarring, but what can you expect from six different artists working from 6 different locations. The length wasn't unusual for a story like this. What am I going to do? Complain that I have more of a comic I am enjoying to read?

Attackers: Not much I can say that hasn't been said. The art is absolutely beautiful. The story however was a little too straight and narrow. Bad guys show up, bad guys fight the good guys, bad guys win, bad guys leave. There's no drama, no suspense. The character origin was a good touch at the end. Personally my favorite part of the attack.

Monday
Artist
icon
932 comments
# 46   Posted: Jun 17 2014, 06:20 PM
Wei thank you for saying all the things that no one else is willing to say. I am completely serious on this.

PyrasTerran
Community Manager
icon
1413 comments
# 45   Posted: Jun 17 2014, 05:22 PM
Thanks all of you who gave us critiques so far, hope to see some more coming up<3

Wei Ingnan
Artist
icon
597 comments
# 44   Posted: Jun 17 2014, 05:18 PM
I have just failed my fifth and FINAL attempt to read the Defenders comic....I normally would not have engaged in these repeated attempts...but there was obviously some honest to goodness effort made here on both sides and I thought I should make an equally serious effort to repay it thru some comments and critique.....but enough is enough there is a problem here

In addition..... the comments being made and those not being made are very troubling.....as this outright failure to recognize the importance of quality finished work over quantity completed in the shortest possible time has now reached ridiculous proportions and appears to be not only purported by many members but rewarded.
Equally troubling is the confusion between good comics and what is happening to the characters in the stories....favoritism of fanaticism over a character should never outweigh actual comics being presented, stories being told or efforts being made by the artists....and all too often there is a serious failure here by our members as well....with this event being a perfect example of that failure

....there are just too many fucking pages and no discernable good reason for that length......it is unreadable.......there is a reason why editors cut out perfectfully good passages or that movie magic ends up on a cutting floor.....for the sake of the final product.......you can make sacrifices for the good of the final product as many also did also to your detriment......but you can never sacrifice the final product for more facetime or fanservice....and that is what you have done here.....I honestly question who you were making this comic for....and audience or yourselves......conception or masturbation?
Please take this as intended; a recognition of the obvious efforts and skills that went into this project but a serious criticism of both directions they were channeled and also a criticism of the attitudes that are creating and furthering that mischannelling on the part of our community.

      Edited Jun 17 2014,  05:20 PM by Wei Ingnan

Video320
Artist
icon
116 comments
# 43   Posted: Jun 17 2014, 12:39 PM
Sweet stuff y'all. exciting from beginning to end, both sides. :D

Cracking Skulls
Global Moderator
icon
344 comments
# 42   Posted: Jun 16 2014, 05:58 PM
This was a really fun comic to do and I'm glad to have been part of it along with my teammates and opponents! It was also a great learning experience when it came to organization, time management and communication between teammates, and the feedback I'm getting from you guys are invaluable, please keep them coming!

If it's fair, I'll post critiques after arma's done with, until then, please keep posting and helping us improve!

K.G.
Artist
icon
23 comments
# 41   Posted: Jun 15 2014, 05:30 PM
Man, that's just LEGEND!!

Both fights were awesome! Attackers consistancy in art was neat and the Defender's outstanding number of pages was unbelievable! Good job!

Gregly
Artist
icon
125 comments
# 40   Posted: Jun 14 2014, 02:31 PM
Defenders it was very well written and flowed smoothly but some of the transitions are more jarring than others, it's probably because for each of the individual sections the first pages are good but the quality fades gradually. However because of this there are beautiful and impressive pages throughout the whole thing. I'm really impressed by all the work and the daunting number of pages, you guys should be proud!'

      Edited Jun 14 2014,  02:31 PM by Gregly

justarhymes
Web Dev
icon
636 comments
# 39   Posted: Jun 14 2014, 12:29 PM
Everybody should be proud today. My only gripe would be that I think the defenders needed credits or a style guide or something. I couldn't always tell who did what.

amazingdavid
Artist
icon
441 comments
# 38   Posted: Jun 14 2014, 09:37 AM
Seconded from heather...I had an immense amount of fun drawing this comic and working with Heather...we've made a lot of  comics together and this is another installment in that collaborative career. As a retirement comic im pleased with what we have because it's exactly what we wanted. Jilsuri...you explained literally our conversation at the beginning of making this .."let's make something pretty"  we wanted to avoid complicating the storyline and focused on just making an easy read. Like Heather said..it's okay if not everyone likes it. Also. MAGIC! And Also...Heather is my favourite.  I packed up my pencils and inks and this was my first fully digital comic and I learned a lot!

Defenders...I loved what you all did with time travel and bayous history. I felt the massive build up to his eventual demise was entertaining and well plotted. It was easy to emote with characters and it felt like a great big ol epic. Each character had a distinct voice and purpose and it culminated in a great final battle and resolution. The art was frenetic and well paced. I found  the action on Jongs pages and Mondays pages hard to follow the stylized panels had me going " what's happening where do I go next?" Despite that I was truly impressed with everyone's creativity and effort. I expect your comic careers are secured if you all can keep pumping out this type of quality! Thanks for the great battle.

Angie
Council
icon
1937 comments
# 37   Posted: Jun 14 2014, 08:28 AM
Thanks for the comments guys! I can't speak for David, but while I knew that being so harsh on the defenders would likely bite us in the ass, I'm happy that we did something that we really wanted to do instead of what we thought other people want us to do. Getting to go balls to the walls crazy with action and brutality was the perfect way to end my Void comic career, so it's okay if not everyone likes it.

Jiisuri
Artist
icon
131 comments
# 36   Posted: Jun 14 2014, 02:22 AM
Threat: Alright so, I love the pretty pictures and how it reads very smoothly. There were little to no moments where I was staring at the page making sense of what's going on. Problem here is it's simply a story of a guy and his cat getting insane power and wiping everything out with little to no effort. Kinda hard to enjoy it if it's simply Bayou appearing, some exposition, and then he blasts them, no problem. Would've helped if we were also shown Bayou's circumstances before this incident, rather than being told through dialogue. Would've added more.

Defenders: Now then, completely opposite issue. First of all, sweet art going on, just a tad confusing in some areas. Jong, if you're reading you might wanna like make your pages a little bigger so I don't have to strain my eyes to see what's going on. Now, about the plot...*deep breaths*

I vastly enjoyed it. It kept my attention from start to finish. I would, however, also like to point out some areas that were pretty rough. The Mars exposition of timetimes part could've been better handled, cos that is quite a steep information dump. Jong's illustrations helped a bit, but chances are a lot of it will be tl;dr. Also, the parts with the tape recorder came out of left field for me. Later digging revealed that it was something from a separate comic that I didn't read. Do not introduce things like these without at least revealing what it is within this comic. Lastly, the last portion where the timelines are fixed didn't make sense to me until someone told me it was The Reckoner that did it, which I actually kinda forgot about. Might not be necessary, but a little blurb about the Reckoner doing that would've been nice.

Anyway, good show, all of you. Point more to the defenders for managing to keep my interest enough to think of a shitton of stuff after reading it. Much sleep has been lost due to this.

Dechado
Artist
icon
227 comments
# 35   Posted: Jun 14 2014, 02:10 AM
I think the hamburger I just had was already spoiled, because I am actually feeling brave enough to actually comment on this.

I just wanted to say, I really enjoyed both stories. Both have so much colors, and actions and pretty backgrounds and I was so excited to see so many pages were available to read. I was at school when I discovered the comics were up. I couldn't wait to get home and take a look at what you had to show off!
I was pretty excited, this is the first Armageddon I've ever had. This was very cool.

I will admit though, timelines, alpha timelines, doomed timelines are a complicated concept, and I do feel there was no need to take several pages to explain them.
Wikipedia is a nice place, but I would have prefered that it had come from your use of words and not quote a site.

Good work Attackers. You held a nice and entertaining story from start to end. And the changes in design on your victims was fucking awesome.

Good work defenders. You managed to tell a pretty story, with very interesting concepts for each of your characters!
Gray finding what she wanted and having a resolve.
Miller losing what was important to him, but still having the willpower to go on
Xia learning about sacrifice and understanding that not everything is always fixed by punching
Veronica realizing hope is the last thing to die
Mars taking advantage of the other timelines
Mortido... Mortido being fucking awesome as always.


Now if you'll excuse me, I think I will go vomit.

Coatl
Artist
icon
318 comments
# 34   Posted: Jun 13 2014, 10:30 PM
it was cool

KevJB
Artist
icon
62 comments
# 33   Posted: Jun 13 2014, 08:12 PM
Awesome stuff. Good job everyone.

The Sketch Fighter
Artist
icon
18 comments
# 32   Posted: Jun 13 2014, 07:43 PM
Definitely enjoyed reading both sides of the fight. Awesome teamwork and great job on the hard work to one of the best battles we've seen in Void this year. Gives yourselves a pat on the back and a nice cold beer (or a glass of wine lol). Cheers!

Slagglle
Artist
icon
61 comments
# 31   Posted: Jun 13 2014, 05:41 PM
Before I start reading these, I just want to say; holy shit.

Shen
Global Moderator
icon
1276 comments
# 30   Posted: Jun 13 2014, 03:31 PM
AHHH, this was the funnest thing ever, I'm so glad I got to be part of it! David and Angie, you are excellent opponents and Bayou was a fun threat! I loved your comic, no page wasted, theres something awesome happening  in all directions! I did think maybe Miller and Mortido were sort of like extra super manly looking? to a sort of weird degree but the girls are all so excellent and I like how Gray was the first to get taken over, thats so her lol! You did your time travel in a way less complex fashion than us, it was way easier to understand! and of course the COLOURS!!! fantastic! This was a great Armageddon!

Fred v2.0.1
Artist
icon
475 comments
# 29   Posted: Jun 13 2014, 02:30 PM
Offenders: It was technically well executed, the art colours are nice, the action is good, but I just couldn't care for anything that was going on, events had no real weight to them. Sure a bunch of people get murdered, but there's no tragedy to it, no personal involvement, and Bayou was just too powerful to hold interest in a fight and didn't have much to give as personality. Also, bringing your cat to your dangerous workplace and being surprised when it dies is kinda weird, but then dunking it in weird radioactive goop is even weirder, I really didn't connect with it and it didn't make him tragic or sympathetic to me, which is usually the point of giving your villain a backstory...

Defenders: Too many pages! The timeline plot exposition bit was super boring and could have done with being cut some, but otherwise, this was pretty fun and you guys totally rocked it.

Everyone's effort is evident, and I do applaud you all for it.

Monday
Artist
icon
932 comments
# 28   Posted: Jun 13 2014, 01:59 PM
My parole officer won't let me.

Kozispoon
Approval Committee
icon
1046 comments
# 27   Posted: Jun 13 2014, 01:49 PM
I cannot WAIT to get off work and read this feast for the eyes. If these comics were cake we'd all be sooo fat right now. Initial congratulations to all!!

The Bent One
Artist
icon
564 comments
# 26   Posted: Jun 13 2014, 01:47 PM
My initial impressions:

DAV/ANGIE: Fabulous colors, as to be expected. I love the loose gestural quality in the linework. The story itself felt super one-sided, which kind of cut down on the entertainment factor. I was getting lots of vibes from X-men's "Apocalypse" character, with him taking over our heroes and super-charging them for his own army. I did enjoy the peek into Bayou & Bog's origins, though.

THE DEFENDERS: HOLY. SHIT. 151 pages. My god in heaven. There was so much going on here. It's clear that you guys really had your shit together and not only came up with a cool time-travel story, but made it work. Any confusion as to how Monday's opening segment fit in to the story was taken care of masterfully in the later segment, which does a very good job of describing this particular flavor of time-travel. I was also amazed at how much character development went on inside this comic, for everyone of the characters defending.

I'm giving it to THE DEFENDERS. Outstanding job, everyone!

      Edited Jun 13 2014,  08:01 PM by The Bent One

Wubble
Think Tank
icon
91 comments
# 25   Posted: Jun 13 2014, 01:25 PM
These are absolutely insanely fantastic!

You can apploud and thank yourselves for making epic work here, guys! Take a serving (or two) of finest champagne!

Charlie
Artist
icon
726 comments
# 24   Posted: Jun 13 2014, 11:33 AM
Saw Angie linked this on twitter - awesome comics everyone!

The Bent One
Artist
icon
564 comments
# 23   Posted: Jun 13 2014, 11:31 AM
SUCH A FEAST FOR MINE EYES. 200 PAGES.

I'm going to have to block out some time to read this in one go.

Monday
Artist
icon
932 comments
# 22   Posted: Jun 13 2014, 10:39 AM
YO BOBO THOSE ARE SICK !

Bobo
Web Dev
icon
893 comments
# 21   Posted: Jun 13 2014, 10:38 AM
I wanted to make some custom thumbs so the pages themselves could be more of a surprise and readers could discover them as they go instead of getting a sneak peek. Sorry it made things take a little longer, but now everything is up and you can read to your hearts' content!

Cracking Skulls
Global Moderator
icon
344 comments
# 20   Posted: Jun 13 2014, 10:20 AM
Yeah sorry, I just posted in the mod forums and let bobo know that we're good.

Monday
Artist
icon
932 comments
# 19   Posted: Jun 13 2014, 10:16 AM
If no one else is answering then i will say yes we should be good.

Angie
Council
icon
1937 comments
# 18   Posted: Jun 13 2014, 08:20 AM
Are your upload problems sorted out? Wanna put this thing up!

Cracking Skulls
Global Moderator
icon
344 comments
# 17   Posted: Jun 12 2014, 05:44 AM
oh no big deal it's only 18 hours left

Sean Patrick Kelly
Artist
icon
117 comments
# 16   Posted: Jun 10 2014, 10:20 PM
Oh man It's been awhile since the last Armageddon, Hope to see you lot out do the last one

Angie
Council
icon
1937 comments
# 15   Posted: Jun 10 2014, 10:15 PM
I can't remember how uploading works for the defenders, but I think only one of you has to upload the whole thing? If there's issues, contact Bobo.

Cracking Skulls
Global Moderator
icon
344 comments
# 14   Posted: Jun 10 2014, 04:00 PM
oh fuck me.

MyHatsEatPeople
Artist
icon
393 comments
# 13   Posted: Jun 10 2014, 04:58 AM
*EXCITED MUFFLE NOISES*

Shen
Global Moderator
icon
1276 comments
# 12   Posted: Jun 8 2014, 11:09 PM
*HYPERVENTILATING*

Mister Kent
Artist
icon
944 comments
# 11   Posted: Jun 8 2014, 01:44 PM
Oh wow already?! GO GO GO!!

DrasticFantastic
Artist
icon
165 comments
# 10   Posted: Jun 8 2014, 07:23 AM
WE'RE IN THE HOME STRETCH YALL.

TINMAN
Artist
icon
140 comments
# 9   Posted: May 1 2014, 10:58 PM
Interesting Lineup here- could very well be the storyline and event that totally redefines the recent Voidscape- I eagerly anticipate your collab guys! Let's kick the tires and light the Hiemium fires! Let the battle between above and below begin!

The Bent One
Artist
icon
564 comments
# 8   Posted: May 1 2014, 10:49 PM
with this team of storytellers, it's gonna be off the CHAIN

Jiisuri
Artist
icon
131 comments
# 7   Posted: May 1 2014, 10:19 PM
Dayuuuuuum all star cast here. I expect awesome stuff in 6 weeks.

Minteh
Artist
icon
252 comments
# 6   Posted: May 1 2014, 06:26 PM
Aw yes!  Give em Hell : D

Pennydox
Artist
icon
235 comments
# 5   Posted: May 1 2014, 06:06 PM
I expect to see a bloodbath >:D

Angie
Council
icon
1937 comments
# 4   Posted: May 1 2014, 04:43 PM
This'll be fun! I don't know if I'll ever have time to do another battle again so gotta make it count!

Cracking Skulls
Global Moderator
icon
344 comments
# 3   Posted: May 1 2014, 04:32 PM
Real talk lets DO IT

Cracking Skulls
Global Moderator
icon
344 comments
# 2   Posted: May 1 2014, 04:31 PM
Happy Armageddon and fuck the world

Chimaeric
Artist
icon
247 comments
# 1   Posted: May 1 2014, 04:28 PM
HELTER SKELTER.
BLOOD ON THE LEAVES.

Comic Details -

 
Type: Armageddon
Drawing Time: 6 weeks
Ended: Jun 19th, 2014
Votes Cast: 47
Page Views: 4360
Winner: PyrasTerran, Chimaeric, Cracking Skulls, Shen, Monday and Majikura
 

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