Kojiro vs. Arena

Kojiro vs. Arena

Kojiro vs. Arena

This comic has not been rated; viewer discretion advised.

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This comic has not been rated; viewer discretion advised.

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441 points
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Critiques & Comments
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PyrasTerran
Global Moderator
1458 comments
# 41   Posted: Nov 25 2009, 11:53 PM
I love playing with lighting in my drawings. :D  ......Which is more than I can say for my skill at lighting with film. :(  <- a film major

ZigZagZero
41 comments
# 40   Posted: Nov 25 2009, 11:10 PM
Yo Dudes, what up?! AJ-Awsome debut man! I told you a I'm diggin Kojiro. From the begining I liked. I liked the title, very nice. Your perspective on characters in the background in the begining pages were excellent. The gesture, structure and foreshortening on the characters were really good. The story was exciting though a little plain. The prologue was good(but then I like prologues) it seemed a little unfinished as compared with the rest of the comic. My only concern is with the lack of detail on your backgrounds. Your perspective is so good that you discredit yourself by no give you BG's more love. Look forward to see more.

PyrasTerran-Arena is a great character. The mystery of her story is what I like, I look forward to seeing more. The grey scale pallet with just reds was fantastic. Your handling of glow and lighting are to be envied (mostly by me). Perspective (my own worst enemy) needs looking at. And as I said for AJ give love to the backgrounds.

Nice Debut(s)

JoshuaEliGilley
Artist
462 comments
# 39   Posted: Nov 25 2009, 01:55 PM
Good debut from both of you! These were both impressive.


The lettering really bothered me though, especially on AJs side.
Pyras, I liked the special touches you added to your lettering, such as the blurred/obscured lettering to
give us the effect of not understanding the language.

Overall though, the text seemed real slapped on top, and I think you both could benefit from more planning in the thumbnail stage to balance your lettering and art.
AJ please find some comic fonts at blambot.com or hand letter.
Pyras, I actually liked the look of your hand lettering better than any of the font lettering here, also the blocky font over the art looked pretty awful IMO.

(sorry if people already said this stuff)

I look forward to seeing future work from both of you.

Dimension
Artist
489 comments
# 38   Posted: Nov 21 2009, 11:39 AM
AJ:  I really like your action, the foreshortening and different camera angles are great. Your line widths do need to be varied more though. Characters/objects that are closer should have a thicker outline than the characters/objects that are further away. When everything has the same line width it be confusing and hard to tell whats what. As many others have said the story wasn't very creative and did not give us much info on either character. I really think you can make some pretty cool comics just do something a bit more different/creative with the story and work on what's been said. Also work on your backgrounds a bit more, you had a loooot of negative space in some pages. Nice first battle overall.

Pyras:  Nice first battle too. The story had similar issues as AJ's, but the quality in this was stronger than your opponents though. You need to push your backgrounds more, some pages felt very empty as well. What your doing with your line work right now is alright, I think you can do more with it using some more line variation. Anyways not bad, you did a good job here.

Nice work guys, I hope to see more from you two!

Angie
Council
1937 comments
# 37   Posted: Nov 21 2009, 10:44 AM
Technically "canon" for a battle is whoever wins. You're not obligated to make your comic happen directly after your last battle though.

AJ 武士龍
Artist
66 comments
# 36   Posted: Nov 21 2009, 10:40 AM
Thanks for the words, Angieness, i will not forget that in the next battles.

Could someone please explain me what" reality" will be the real one in the comic battles?
It will be the winners reality, right....?
i'm confused...

PyrasTerran
Global Moderator
1458 comments
# 35   Posted: Nov 21 2009, 12:04 AM
thank you for the words :)

The hand-written text wasn't random; Arena is the only character I planned to give hand-written text. I'll try and make it more legible next time... I have terrible hand-writing

Angie
Council
1937 comments
# 34   Posted: Nov 20 2009, 11:55 AM
AJ-I think this was a good first battle and your lineart was very nice. But since you don't have any difference in your linewidths, all of your lines all blend together. For example, 5th page 4th panel the lines around Arena's legs should be quite a bit thicker than the lines in the background, at the moment it looks like they're close to one another because they're both the same linewidth. It would also help you break up some of your detail, like page 6 panel 2 is kind of confusing to look at, you have a lot going on there and it gets kind of confusing. Another thing to consider is potentially using toning or solid blacks to separate objects from one another.

PyrasTerran-I liked the toning you had here, it worked very well and you had a good hold of lighting and form. Be careful with your text though, the random hand written text here and there kind of hurts the overall presentation. I feel like you also could have done a bit more with your backgrounds, remember that buildings aren't just boxes with windows on them. Also try not to put black text on top of anything that isn't a white background, I had a hard time reading page 6 because of it, it would have helped to make the outline around the text thicker.

I think both comics had a good hold of action and it was pretty clear to me what was going on. Both of you did kind of a typical first Void battle with people just randomly fighting for no reason, it's something most of us fall into so it's not a huge deal as long as you both do something different on your next battles.

PyrasTerran
Global Moderator
1458 comments
# 33   Posted: Nov 20 2009, 11:42 AM
eh?

fel/P2
Artist
275 comments
# 32   Posted: Nov 20 2009, 10:49 AM
..is that p2 arena just face planted in page 1

i'll give a vote and a crit later

michaelharris
Artist
352 comments
# 31   Posted: Nov 20 2009, 10:16 AM
ooooooh! I see it now. I don't know if anyone else had problems with it but I thought the pieces were just part of the arena floor. Maybe draw more attention to them somehow. Ok. Cool. thanks for clarifying.

AJ 武士龍
Artist
66 comments
# 30   Posted: Nov 20 2009, 08:16 AM
Hi guys!

Pyras - Bro, your comic it's so cool that i can't stop read it again and again :) !
Your pages are really really amazing, the colors and special effects work so good in them also!
The combat it's fluid, i loved the idea of the two start battling because one language misunderstood lol
You drawed Kojiro very nice as well,i loved  specially the transformations and the spitting fire attacks!
Bro, i'm flattered with your work too...domo arigato!

Drawdan - thanks for your words, i'm glad you enjoyed the fight scenes and the mad angles,i really love to give it all my best in that.
About the story...yup, i'm a bit sad, because i didn't had so much time to do the balloonage and the text...believe me, i had the all dialogue inside my head, but at the end, with no much time left, i decided to submit my pages, instead of failling to upload the comic...i guess i've learned to give more importance to deadlines now.
About the "Void City fighting arena" scene, i thought it would be very original lol, but at the end, and as we can see by the critics, i was wrong lol...i just didn't wanted to narrate some random battle between two strangers...
Anyway, thanks for the critiques Drawdan!

Anthonybaiz - Thank man, i hope you liked our debut man!

amazingdavid - Thanks man, i really aprecciate your critique ( all of you ) specially those who are inside the industry...wow, i can only dream at being more professional in comics :) ( un )fortunely, i work as a security to pay my bills, and sometimes my work schedule just kills my free time :') ...
Anyways, this was the best i could gave ya guys, with the little time i had :)
about the :"mid to late 80's bronze age stuff" thing... whoa, am i too old for comics..?lol, just kidding...even i had some difficultie to classifie my art style...maybe a little of ameri-manga with post golden age comics...i dunno lol.
thanks for the comments,David!

Michaelharris - Hi there Michael, thank you for the critique.
The "DBZ arena" thing...i made it, maybe unconscious, believe me.In fact, only now with your critique i see you are right, i unfurtunately did it a bit similar...
About the 2 OCs fighting in an arena, as i reply to Drawdan, at the time i thought it would be original because i mainly see in void comics battles in the streets...but after all i guess the fight in the stadium had the contrary effect i wish to give to you, it was unoriginal too...damn!
I also don't see how dropping a sand person into the ground would destroy them, logically I would have thought that Kojiro would have been broken and she just would have reformed herself.
Quote

In the first panel of page 17, kojiro was able to do the spitting fire attack...in contact with fire, Arena became like glass, that's why i draw some pieces of Arena on the last panel of page 17.
I'm glad you liked the crazy angles dude...
Once more, thanks for the critts and the tips, sure i'll use them ;)

PyrasTerran
Global Moderator
1458 comments
# 29   Posted: Nov 19 2009, 08:57 PM
Thanks for the advice. :)

I had figured that going with a simple confrontation for starters would be kosher, but it looks like that backfired :(

The "narrator" is the very same voice from the Intro comic, and is actually a character that will be revealed in the future.

michaelharris
Artist
352 comments
# 28   Posted: Nov 19 2009, 05:18 PM
Pyras: The story did have the whole, "Hi my name is Bill, let's fight now" cliche to it. I would have wanted to seen a more unusual way for them to interact. The fight was pretty cool. I did have one main problem with the story though. Towards the last few pages I actually yelled at my computer, "Who the hell is talking?" I read on, hoping the random narrator would be seen but we got nothing. Randomly some guy decides to narrate, even though he didn't do so on the first few pages...

Art wise the backgrounds needed a lot of work. They drew attention to the fact that you probably don't like doing backgrounds. The minimal color scheme was cool, I like that. The anatomy was pretty solid I would just want you to get the backgrounds up to the same level of quality.

michaelharris
Artist
352 comments
# 27   Posted: Nov 19 2009, 05:07 PM
AJ: I kinda felt "a line in the sand" was a tad cheesy. The whole arena thing did seem kind of uncreative. It really bothered me when the arena looked exactly like the one from Dragonball Z, complete with raised square shaped battlefield with a grass border. The fight went on a really long time and also seemed a bit cliche. The fighter gets knocked down and you think he's out but then he goes super saiyan and is back in the fight. It's not bad per se but I would want you to explore less commonly used ideas. Since these characters are strangers, they really don't have anything against each other, they're not trying to kill each other, Kojiro's not trying to win this fight and use the money to save an orphanage. There's no drama. They did some cool stuff, but it just seemed like I'd been bored after the first twelve pages of action. The Dragonball z stage also made me unable to get over how the action also seemed remniscent of DBZ. Again, there's nothing wrong with that type of action it just bothered me a bit. I also don't see how dropping a sand person into the ground would destroy them, logically I would have thought that Kojiro would have been broken and she just would have reformed herself.

Art wise you need panel borders. Please add some gutters to your art next time. A lot of the angles were cool. I would encourage you to add solid blacks instead of scratching in the blacks. That really looks bad. Especially on Kojiro on page one the bottom character. I would keep working on backgrounds too.

amazingdavid
Artist
441 comments
# 26   Posted: Nov 19 2009, 04:46 PM
AJ -Your art is intense lot's of interesting design choices, massive amounts of detail, good movement.  I think you have a solid foundation to build off from here.  the biggest problems I can see with the art is in the amount of stuff you put on the pages. You are drawing so much detail, and it's rich descriptive detail too, that it all kind of turns to mush in some panels. especially when you are opening up the panels with so much white. I don't think toning would work for you perhaps color, or picking and choosing how much detail you want to give to a specific panel highlighting important actions and sequences.  Once again giving everything the same level of detail and importance makes everyting mushing and unreadable.  Your anatomy is okay, not my cup of tea on how you draw it (reminds me of mid to late 80's bronze age stuff), but it's not poorly drawn. Panel borders are also extremely important. panels direct a flow of not only time but show distance and space, when you just float multiple images on a page they are essentially all existing at the same time, which makes the whole situation confusing. IF you want to create a greater sense of space or movement have you characters break a panel border instead of removing the border completely.  the biggest downfall for me was the Void Battle Arena story line which is about the most cliche intro you could start with.  I would understand that in 2005 or 04 or whenever Void first started...yes..but there is so much history with that storyline that it's right up there with "two characters meet randomly on the street and slug it out" I hope your storylines are more interesting in the future....

Pyras: I didn't think your storyline was much better than AJ's because you managed to accomplish the second Void cliche for a storyline.  Where yours got a greater entertainment point in my book was your dialogue was better and more believeable....although the narration towards the end felt unnatural and superimposed to give the story..I don't know..tension or something.  However I am interested in Arena as a character (I want to battle her sometime...woot) Artwise this was fantastic.  I think you actually got better as the comi went along, your last 3 pages being designed drawn colored toned much better than the pages preceding them. Your anatomy is decent although your characters feel oddly stiff. Even when they are doing something action oriented they kind feel like stickers as opposed to a moving object existing in real space. Perhaps it's the lack of supporting movement lines (wrinkles in clothing, hair strands, muscles..etc) anyway you choreograph action quite well and I look forward to seeing more from you.  One last thing...work on your bubbles and type...it's all super crowded and that type at the end in black on top of black with the yellow outline was horrendous...and almost impossible to read...

good first battle you two...

Anthonybaiz
Artist
138 comments
# 25   Posted: Nov 19 2009, 10:53 AM
Great job Guys

PyrasTerran
Global Moderator
1458 comments
# 24   Posted: Nov 19 2009, 08:34 AM
Sorry for the double post, I need to get the hang of being patient with the button. :(

PyrasTerran
Global Moderator
1458 comments
# 23   Posted: Nov 19 2009, 08:33 AM
Thanks for the words. :)

I probably should have clarified in a Forward page? The killer Arena is fighting is the same killer from her introduction comic. This comic happens immediately after that one.

I wouldn't say that morality is a story-telling tool more than the concept/discussion OF morality ^^; Every character has their set of morals. Darth sees defeating Arena as a prosocial action. Even an argument between morality and instinct, nuture vs. nature as in the comic, is not trying to erase morality from the story.

drawdan
Artist
312 comments
# 22   Posted: Nov 19 2009, 05:03 AM
Pyras...I think your story telling was a little stronger, but I was left wondering...who is the dude Arena was bashing on page 1? I assume he was just a thug, but I dont know. For you, and for AJ this was your debut battle. You only get that once and I think you both missed a little by really setting your characters up along a path of character develope, though I felt that you did attempt that in your monolouge about the morality vrs strength thing. Dont forget, morality is a tremendouse story telling tool and at the core of some of the all time greats-Superman....Batman....etc. I liked the greay shading with touches of color and your have just as solid a handle on your anatomy and exadurated forshortning as AJ does. I would like you to spend a little more time on your backgrounds, ( You too AJ- your backgrounds were nearly non exsistant)  Background work will often elevate your quality scores from decent to awesome.
I liked and disliked alot of the same things about both of these battles but I have to give the thumbs up to Arena.

drawdan
Artist
312 comments
# 21   Posted: Nov 19 2009, 04:41 AM
AJ...Nice start. Ill start with the positive...I like alot of your angles, you obviously spent alot of time on your cool fighting poses. You did a great job illustrating your opponents power set and I enjoyed the fight scenes alot.
The crit- Story/story/story...Your comic tells me almost nothing about your character or your opponents. I am currently thumbing a new battle, and currently the story set up occupies 4- 7 pages and the actual fighting only 3-4. Look at Angies battles, or Felonies battles, Spikes/Mondays- the list goes on an on. Solid comic artists tell a great story and develope a character as well as they draw fight scenes. In my opinion, the typical "Void City fighting arena" is un original and boring. That hurt your vote for me in craetivity and entertainment. As far as quality, I think you have a pretty good handle on anatomy and forshortning. I personally missed gutters and word bubbles in your comic. That may be a style choice for you which is fine, but for me, drawing panels without panel lines causes confusion and floating text in negative space without a box or bubble hurts the good art.

PyrasTerran
Global Moderator
1458 comments
# 20   Posted: Nov 19 2009, 12:34 AM
OH WAIT nevermind.. I see what happened on page 17 now XD haha

PyrasTerran
Global Moderator
1458 comments
# 19   Posted: Nov 19 2009, 12:33 AM
Wow, you drew so many pages, I'm impressed and ashamed that I only came up with 7..!

I'm also flattered that you drew Arena well-endowed, despite the fallacy XD

You have some great shots there and you got real creative with her sand powers, I'm really impressed on that.

But.. is that how it ends, on that cliffhanger? I wanted to see the end of the match. :(

AJ 武士龍
Artist
66 comments
# 18   Posted: Nov 18 2009, 09:40 PM
I have finish the uploading successfully  right now...whoa, i've got to go to bed and sleep for a week right now lol
Voiders don't forget to vote
Pyras i'm anxious to see what you have done, bro!!

P.S; i'm doing an hype jam battle poster...err...maybe in a week i'll get it done in color...
yo peace!

AJ 武士龍
Artist
66 comments
# 17   Posted: Nov 17 2009, 11:49 AM
Hi there Guys,sorry my absence, i work in the security, and lately i have been doing 12 hours shift at work... :/
but yeah, i've got almost all the pages done, right now i'm finishing the last 3 pages...
Although tired and sleepy, i will not fail you guys!
Tomorrow i'll  submit my pages sure!!

Pyras, our battle will be epic! :)

PyrasTerran
Global Moderator
1458 comments
# 16   Posted: Nov 15 2009, 11:15 PM
aaaaaanxioooouuuss D:

PyrasTerran
Global Moderator
1458 comments
# 15   Posted: Nov 9 2009, 01:25 PM
done!

PyrasTerran
Global Moderator
1458 comments
# 14   Posted: Nov 9 2009, 01:55 AM
I'll be submitting my pages today. :)

Koenig
2 comments
# 13   Posted: Nov 3 2009, 08:43 AM
If you haven't found it by now, there's also a thread on the forums that explains how to do it: http://entervoid.com/board/index.php?topic=10587.0

PyrasTerran
Global Moderator
1458 comments
# 12   Posted: Oct 31 2009, 10:19 PM
I just realized I might be able to break it down with fireworks...

PyrasTerran
Global Moderator
1458 comments
# 11   Posted: Oct 31 2009, 10:19 PM
suppose you want to make them form a picture, like how some have done, any idea on how to make each thumbnail coincide properly or is it all luck and practice?

William_Duel
Community Manager
942 comments
# 10   Posted: Oct 31 2009, 08:12 PM
If you have customized thumbnails, email them to Angie and she'll set it up and make it all nice and purty.  Just be sure to name them in an easy fashion like thumb1, thumb 2, etc.

Wolcik
Artist
492 comments
# 9   Posted: Oct 28 2009, 04:19 PM
I know I'll enjoy this one if you don't default... so don't !! Good Luck XD

PyrasTerran
Global Moderator
1458 comments
# 8   Posted: Oct 22 2009, 10:40 AM
how do you set up those customized thumbnails when you're uploading the pages?

cultmasterflex
Artist
125 comments
# 7   Posted: Oct 22 2009, 10:29 AM
...cool...

E.W. Schneider
Artist
1061 comments
# 6   Posted: Oct 22 2009, 10:27 AM
Don't play no video games, make some thumbnails, don't play no video games, draw it up, and don't play no video games.

PyrasTerran
Global Moderator
1458 comments
# 5   Posted: Oct 22 2009, 10:18 AM
While we work, mayhaps some tips/pointers on getting a good workflow to finish efficiently? :D

Kuro
Artist
581 comments
# 4   Posted: Oct 22 2009, 07:37 AM
right on you guys.
kick some ass!

Darius Corry
Artist
428 comments
# 3   Posted: Oct 22 2009, 05:34 AM
Debut battle!

YUM!

William_Duel
Community Manager
942 comments
# 2   Posted: Oct 21 2009, 11:25 PM
I'm sure I'll cross paths with you guys at some point, until then, good luck.

E.W. Schneider
Artist
1061 comments
# 1   Posted: Oct 21 2009, 09:52 PM
Hey, alright, good luck to the both of you, beginner battles are the best!

Comic Details -

 
Drawing Time: 4 weeks
Ended: Nov 25th, 2009
Votes Cast: 23
Page Views: 1743
Winner: PyrasTerran
 

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