Good fight Pepperoni... way to bring the heat!!

Good game, man.

No more bullshit...No more drama.
I will take severe action if there is anymore crap.
When a Mod comes in and says 'Knock it Off!' that means knock it off.

Comments are now cleaned up, I THINK I caught everything that was drama related and anything that was a personal attack. Again, keep the comments clean and stick to talking about the art.  I have to manually remove all of this drama so stop making my job harder. If you want to make someone that isn't me's life hell please do it in private messages where I can't see it and don't have to deal with it.

Anthonybiaz's original comment, minus the personal jab at someone. Stop it guys, I'm tired of deleting this stuff.

"Coldstone: i've always like your work, but.....BUT THIS IS LIFE OF DEATH MAN!!!!! Why would you do an unfinished story unless your planning on loosing a mothaloving Deathmatch, homie?
I thought you would have went all out. but i cryed at the terrible ending..<sniff> <sniff>
you got all right to be confidant....but don't be Goerge W. Bush kind of confident. unless you have a plan.

But i'm ctually waiting to see how your Happy Bunny will turn out.

PepperoniDeluxe :You were steady and focused....like that turtle trying to hump that other turtle while making that noise. "awh" "awh" "awh"
I really enjoyed your style. and you put alot of thought into it. your style reminds me of ren and stimpy.....did i spell that right?"

BINGO! I'm with you on that one.

Hay, Lurking is fun. It allows you to learn without people giving feedback (good or bad), and this is a very valuable freedom to me. Monday has a point, and with a death of a character, a review should be made. Before I make my review though, I come from a literary background and view that a comic book is primarily for the telling of a story (hence my review is heavily on plot and events). I have already voted, but I will explain myself.

PepperoniDeluxe

Your story might have been longer just from the way you do your frames. You seemed to have 3-4 per page instead of 4-6 that most people tend to use in theirs. I'm guessing that this is about 22 pages. But the size isn't important. As a gag, your plot was solid and had a decent flow to it. Your bubbles seemed odd in the way you placed them though. The english language's eye starts in the upper left and moves to the bottom right and some of your chat bubbles didn't quite follow the flow. I was a little confused as to why he suddenly attacked rad girl. It took me a while to realize it the Nam flashbacks. I really liked the shading on page 6 and wished you would do that for the hair, shirt... well, for all your panels really. It had a very professional look to it given the lighting from the tv.

Coldstream

There is no doubt in my mind that the action from that comic was outstanding in a way that children lose their moral guidance the second they see a panel.

Well done.

Your art was solid, and definitely pulled in the eye. Alas, I at one point stopped reading the panels and started to just look at like a picture book. You almost could follow it without chat bubbles though, which was neat. The chair bugs me though. Alot. Physics don't do that! The chair had a clockwise rotation, followed by the main character investing clockwise momentum, and then the chair retracted giving it even more clockwise momentum as it spins inward towards the central point. Personally, I think it would have had more action if he did a barrel run on the chair. Yes it is a comic, but still man, there are basic physics. As for plot, the only thing I haven't seen mentioned is that You lose momentum the second Draxx insults RG. You lose the conflict in the story and this causes a moral shift as, once the other character has given up (eg, not dropping a freaking ship on him out of anger at the insult) Draxx proceeds to grab a chainsaw and immediately take it to the now damsel-in-distress. A better, more agressive, but still sound way to have executed the final frames would have been to keep the girl agressive, but make a mistake, like tossing the ship through a wall and going at him with fists, etc. This is your story though so I only ask for consistentcy and try to keep emotional flow of characters slow and reactive. For the record, panel 4 of page 6, that face was absolutely priceless for me. I really want to lurk around and see a good story from you in the future

I'm not ashamed of how I voted, so here it is. (kind of...)

Quality: Coldstream > PepperoniDeluxe - Cold outclassed you with his precise style, but you made points back with your in depth plot.

Creativity: Coldstream < PepperoniDeluxe - Pepper had a massive, intricate plot that could only be executed with Draxx.

Entertainment: Coldstream < PepperoniDeluxe - Pep's story flowed in a way that allowed for a background of characters, rising action, climax, and conclusion. that allowed for a more engaging story and a higher entertainment value. Cold, as a male, your story did hold some merit, although more primal in nature.

So yeah, hope to see more. Monday, you should reach out to the lurkers more often. Kind of a Lurker Reachout Program. Ltrz pplz

I'm glad Monday likes me...

I will never ever ever piss you off Monday......ever

I think I said something like 100 comments ago but I will reiterate cuz seriously...who's gonna scroll that far down.

I actually like both of these characters...and I thought the battle was what it was. I laughed and voted and said something about anatomy and the 90's or whatever.  I hope Cold makes another character and I hope to see more from Rad Gal. For me it feels like the joke is on all the people who took this waaaaay too seriously. I mean maybe this was a social experiment to see how silly internet arguments are. If it was..then SUCCESS!!!

Also what do you call people who comment, and read the comics but never vote? Are they still lurkers?

Uuuuuh okay. Wow. XD Going to ignore the drama but I'd really like to emphasize that Coldstream, I think you can make the 90's crazyness work if you pushed it over the edge more. Something I personally am struggling with is middle grounds. How cartoony do I want to make it? How realistic? I've been told that EXTREMES WORK. But middle grounds fall flatter than Pep's jokes. (He's my bud I'm allowed to be a dick at him cause he knows I'm full of love.) So yeah, I agree with all the people who were urging you to PUSH IT TO THE MAX!! Let's see heightened dynamics! Bulging muscles with those horrible little veins, let's see you push the limits! You're a teacher, I'm surprised most of this doesn't come more naturally to you. And honestly shocked you aren't familiar with Hogarth. Seriously, I draw like disney reject shit and that Hogarth has taught me tons even if it's totally not the style I draw in. Get that chainsaw and rip yourself out of the box you've trapped yourself in! Professionals are always learning, always practicing, always getting *refreshers* and if you take your craft seriously you'll take a nibble of humble pie and know these aren't personal attacks, these are urges to help you get better because you obviously have it in you to do so or all of these friends wouldn't be wasting their breath.

I shall now return to lurking. <3 peace out

Hey kids, this is over. You're all done. Move on and grow up, because I'm tired of cleaning up after a bunch of people who don't know how to let things go. Let's all agree to disagree? Okay, awesome.

The current comments are remaining until Toast can read through this fun and take the appropriate action, then it is all being removed. So again, grow up and move on kids. Anymore comments going off topic will be removed because I'm sick of it. In the future please keep your petty childish antics to private messages so I don't have to deal with it.

I'm sorry Cold, after the 50th comment I stopped taking you seriously. What the fuck were you doing what the fuck was babylon doing and what the fuck was everyone else doing trying to appeal to you as a rational adult? If that isn't a sign of faith about your credentials as a teacher; I dont fucking know what is. The volume of drama , backlash, and political criticism isn't fucking worth it for this comic. In my time in void here, It's like every other comic I've seen  

Ever.


Your score is being affected more by the silent voters who take no part in this conversation than the mods, the critics, and everyone's collective opinion of you combined. Because nothing is a better determinant of a comic's success than the mass of unknown lurkers roaming around watching you ; judging you. You are only SO lucky that a few of them had ever decided to talk about it at all.

Had you been in void 5 years ago you would have had a chance. Had void existed in the 90s you would have had a chance. Had you been drawing for heavy metal you would be next to the jerk off chapter about the chick with metal chainsaws and leather armor, and if you think that's gonna have a snowball's chance in hell you're dead wrong. But as it stands- You signed up for Void; and in your rush DEATHMATCHED against Pepperoni.

What did you expect ?

Win ?

No sir, no one goes to deathmatches to win- They go to deathmatches because they're suicidal or have planned every contingency of their character dying. In short; they go to deathmatches to DIE DIE DIE. If you can't accept that result, then you shouldn't have signed up to begin with.

 You only have a cameo, an undynamic yet readable plot and a pinup collection that cant tell whether its porn, an action sequence, or a PowerTool commercial. The concept of either wasn't pushed all the way through because I don't see it. The style of how you do it is a non issue; because that's what you're stuck with and that's your brand of comic love; now like everyone else here you have to make it fucking work.

SO MAKE IT FUCKING WORK

I dont have to tell you what you need to do in order to get better; everyone has already suggested it and if you dont like what they're suggesting THEN YOU DONT HAVE TO DO IT ! If anything needs fixing it's your capability to accept that YOU MADE A MISTAKE.

Good job


Pepperoni- I'm sorry but you're not getting a swarming sea of compliments and well wishes that I gave Coldstream, but I'll tell you this- This was one of the better deaths I've seen on void. Characters have died from Fire, Acid, bullets,bubblegums, bricks, asphyxiation, internal combustions, time travel,piano wire, fried chicken, giant robots, homosexuals, jews, fishpeople, apple people, demons, angels, and perfectly normal fucking people. BUT I must say that this is one of the first times that someone died specifically from Hubris (and ironically, a potion of immortality).  BACKWARDSASSHITIKNOWRIGHT! But in keeping with the level of objective sadism I maintained with coldstream;
 page 9 i dont get, you can cut that.
 Page 13 doesnt put enough emphasis on the radness because it's tighter than a nun. Make some frame space its' not like you're doing this on super deluxe comic paper jesus.
 Page 15 Why is the panel so big for that truck driver? IS THIS GUY IMPORTANT !? SHIT WHERE'S HIS BIO.No seriously this wouldve been a great Angry RG segment but you fucked it up.
 Page 20 I dont get why things aren't radical anymore; you need some kind of indicator that's reading emotional undercurrents cause I'm not catching it. If there was an underlying joke I dont get it, if its deus ex machina then kill yourself.
 Page 26 Works oddly enough.
 Page 30 I dont know who's talking in the last panel
Overall one of the better reads since its content is promising. But your execution just scatters my interest. I wish you had this rare talent for making frames just right and perfect for the situation but it looks like you'll have to plan them. Good jurb.

While I could care less about drawings and drawing styles Im more interested about people's execution of them, and writing in general because that's where my bias lies. (Provided that they make it readable and not painful to look at.) While its sexy to draw hot chicks getting decapitated by dewalt chainsaws they wont transcend being a mere act of violence even if it was in comic form. Writing might give it more depth; but I dont want to see paragraph word bubbles either.  Thats what pacing is all about, and in comics; your pictures are your writing and like good writing you gotta say just the right things and the right amount.

OR YOU WILL LOSE US.

Going into a deathmatch was foolhardy but balls to the wall action packed, the only reason anyone wins in these is because they've made less mistakes than the other guy and by some ungodly miracle wins by reasons they did not expect. So if anyone gets anything out of this it's the loser who has to get back up even if they have to make 100 more losing bets.

Take this time to rethink; start over if you have to. Or .. leave. You can go somewhere else, no one's forcing you and god forbid you're losing out on something cause you're not. No one goes to void for gratifying reasons at all. But those who do knows that this is as real as shit gets.

Babylon; Make a comic sometimes , perhaps a critique ? I like how you play the rebellious rogue; But son, you dont got shit on me in a Million years. You're just a ranting fanboy, and I've seen more charming prostitutes open their mouths better than you.

Oh wow, I don't comment often but maybe I can help get this back on track with a crit.
Neither of the styles is "my thing" so I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible here. >__<

Pep - I always figure things have to be measured by what they attempt to be, I cannot measure your comic by the same stick as Cold's because you are not cold and your style is not the same. If your comic would try to be a 90s comic books pastiche, I would crit is as I would a 90s comic book pastiche, but its not. You've gone for a gag comic and personally i think you succeeded. Personally I agree with the crits that say your story was a bit too long, not in events, but in pages, however I had no problem reading it and understanding it in one go. You did plenty of stuff well, you made Draxx interesting (which is quite an accomplishment), you had to tear the character apart, yeah, but I figure it was a given and no one should be surprised you did, since you do make gag comics. I love the expressiveness of your characters and the fact they have a lot of personality, so you have the opposite of Cold there. However I'll focus on some problems (because what we all need to work in are the problems with our comics, right? ). One thing that seriously bugged me is the fact that you seem to neglect your own character in both story and art, you gave Draxx a motivation and I do like the oaf thing, but I cared way more about him than aobut Rad Gal, and it also seems like you did too, your drawings of your own character seemed rather lazy. I think the lines and anatomy were wonky and they worked perfectly with what you were going for, but no problem there, however i wish the quality throughout was more consistent... also, backgrounds! (as everyone has told you by now), I would've liked to see some panels be more open, to give a sense of place, and some variation on the camera angles, saw very few . I think I don't have that much to say about your comic because some of the crits towards you seemed pretty spot on from my POV, so i don't want to repeat them.

Cold - I know you're getting a lot of flak right now but you gotta realize that people will expect others to justify their position somehow, you're a sequential art teacher in your mid 30s, so people will expect comics that hold up to that standard... to me, this one in particular, does not. There's plenty of good points, though the story is very weak, the narrative is clear, understandable and easy to read. The paneling works for me, though maybe you could push it a bit more, and even if you say you had little time, you seem to have consistent quality throughout, which is good, you've also got plenty of details on backgrounds and characters, I wish you pushed the enveloped a bit more on design tho, the fact you like the 80s and 90s aesthetic doesn't justify stuff looking like it's made of Legos. However there are also many problems (not talking about style here, meaning actual errors), line quality, scorzo and perspective are what jumps out the most at this point. I'll use some examples because otherwise it's like I'm talking out of my ass, the very first page would be the best example of anatomical problems (again, not style, but a fundamental problem with structure), I flipped it to point out some things (http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u195/0-Duredhel-0/Void/coldcrit.jpg) , hope you don't mind. I'm thinking you might've tried to do a scorzo there, but everything from the anatomy to the line quality there is all over the place, now its extremely hard to get perfect structure in every single character in a comic, hell I know I can't do it even in my imagination, but is it too much to ask for a splash page/cover? Again on the bottom panel of page 4, there's two profiles that are completely lacking and this would be a large panel and focal point for the entire page. Another big problem is foreshortening and perspective, some examples that are easy to see are in page 3, on the very first panel you have the motorcycle and the building as if seen from different perspectives, and on the last panel, Rad Gal's body, head and the streetlight behind her are all seen from different vantage points. I think the main problem that groups all these issues is that you're drawing your panels and figures without an underlying structure, no perspective lines, no using guidelines, no reference, etc, which is something that unfortunately, at this point, you don't seem to be able to do yet (neither do I, that's why I try to structure as much as i can, and still get tons of flops and errors). I'm in no position to tell you to go back to basics, i'm not an art teacher or anything of the sort, but I'd say at least take another look at the basics, since they seem to have gotten lost somewhere on the way. Just some friendly advice.

Anyway, to anyone dying here, you still have a bonus month if we get another Month of the Dead, this October!


: D

AAAAAUUUUUUOOOORGGHHHHOOOOUUUURGHAAAUUUROOOOGHOOO URGHRARGH!

Anyways.

Thanks a bunch to the people who wrote us some lengthy critiques (Especially Sawbones, Jack, and Jared) . They were nice, juicy critiques, and I DEVOURED them like an obese girl guide scout and some yet-to-be sold fundraiser cookies. A lot of the points brought up I was already aware of, but I wasn't aware of a lot more, so thats always a plus. So, to anybody who is still going to write a critique, I'd be fine with you repeating what other people have said, or even just stating the obvious. I'd prefer it, actually. It can bring your train of though to other areas that should be improved (and it helps me remember to work on it and stuff IDK). So, what I'm saying is, FEEL FREE TO RAMBLE. I like it. I'll read it. Its great.

And, uh. To all the people starting drama or whatever;

You are correct. They are in error. Everything is right with the world. You may stop arguing now.

Sadly, I think anything that needs saying has either been said or will remain unsaid for fear of causing more drama.

One suggestion I'd make to Coldstream is your style is a little outdated, but it could be quite funny if you ran further with it and made it a joke.

hugs all around. And coming from a student, we are grown people. Just cause cold does stuff don't mean we do. I think by the dramaless fights we've had on our records proves that we aren't a bunch of followers or drones. So Jack lets just squash the fighting and everything. Everyone's opinions have been heard and have been taken into consideration. Moving on please

Yeah, I'm assuming we're all adults and as a student who works close with Coldstream, none of the comments made on the website has had any impact or influence on us at all. We've grasped that this site is a learning vessel for aspiring sequential artists,but its also a social network where comments are expressed freely (some harsher than others) and not at all to hurt anyone's feelings (at least we assume).
 
Also speaking from a student, everything expressed from him is nothing more than sarcasm and none of which is taken personal. From what I see he has actually agreed to the amendments that need to be made addressed by the members.

But I guess what I'm saying is I understand that things can get out of hand on here, but its one thing to take shots at one's work and another to takes shots at the person.

Wow!! Two good crits in a row! I played with the angles of that specific panel a little, and I couldn't get anything that I like so I went with my initial shot. Not that its right or good, but that's what I went with. I had to do all the major drawing and get the pages scanned before I had to leave town.

i'm with dawg. all this talk & it was just sorta meh.

pep, all of the 'frags' made me chuckle a bit & there was some nice work with some of the dialogue as well, but it still isn't doing it for me. i don't know what to suggest in order to fix or help it along. but the jokes fall a bit flat & art's too loose & stylized to compliment it. again this is more opinion than critique, sorry. one thing i think you can work on is your designs. i think you have a similar issue that cold has in that a lot of your kind of props & generic background fill sort of stuff has really generic designs. put a bit more thought into things & make the world more interesting too

Cold, way too many side profile shots. how often is a point of view going to flush that precise & flat an angle time after time after time if you're aiming for dynamic storytelling? it's fine for an effect but when something in every panel is flushed flat, it kills it. also much in the same vein, when you see the three guys sitting on the couch, while you don't break the 180 rule, it's real awkward to see it go the full 180 degrees. especially when actually showing the commotion, if even just rubble & a dust cloud or something, would generate more excitement. when you do break from the profile shots, the foreshortening's either wonky or flat. and the height of the characters felt inconsistent as one second phil looks way bigger than drax & then the next it's vice versa. the backgrounds weren't too bad but the designs of the environment & props still seemed pretty bland & generic.

Have to agree... think I do need to work on my storytelling. I get pretty fixated on the drawing.

Man, I should have read these before all the hype.  Talk about a let down.  And, I am in no way putting down the comics, they were pretty good, but all this hype and drama and retard comments don't belong here.

Pep:  It started out good, but just went on forever and started to dull down because of that.  I think you should have just cut it in half, and worked on making it look twice as good.

Cold: It looks nice.  Besides the art, though, it's like you didn't put much effort into it.

So now that we have so much drama and posts that don't really help or add anything, can we get some more actual critiques on these battles? I think the battle comments have been sidetracked enough.

Loves everyone with bullets...

My next character is going to be a happy bunny... who eats carrots... and loves everyone!!

I haven't seen this much interest in a battle in like...8 months...I think you both did an awesome job of generating a lot of entertaining critiques on Void....

to who survives keep up the good work

to who dies...maybe your next character won't suck ballz...

and I mean suck ballz in the really really demeaning sexist ageist racist way....if in someway you can extrapolate from that those things...

Pep, Cold, good job

I'll hug you Fox!!

ummm, sooo all this tension....... can we just hug this out........ no?... ok

I was wondering about that... you can still call him dear. I got called dear and sweetheart all weekend by the mature women( didn't want to say old because I would be accused of being ageist and sexist!!)

fkdagfja

I'm sorry Pepperoni! D:

/bows down in shame

@ Kotori

...I'm a boy.

*SAD FACE AND SINGLE TEAR*

That's actuall
That's actually pretty good!

Being real... I did find Pepperoni's comic mildly amusing, and if I lose, I lose. I underestimated Pepperoni as an opponent, and due to personal time constraints and responsibilities, I wasn't 100% pleased with my product.

I think Pep's battle was  CREATIVE. You did a very good job, Dear. You took something and made work with your style of art and writing!
You see that type of work all over Void! It's unique and I'll repeat, creative.

THAT'S ALL I GOT TO SAY ABOUT THAT!

whatever...

Anything from Andrew Loomis!

Pardon me... Hogarth.

Thanks for that bit of info... any books from Barnes & Noble you wanna suggest? Cause I'm still trying to find this illusive Hogarthe.

whoa! wow had no clue, thanks though.

 I retract my statement dus to my ignorance.

Thanks Jack.

A 50%/50% causes half the site's users to be banned and their comics deleted. It's in the FAQ.

Removed the comment about Jews and Babylon55's comment addressing it.

Yeah man I LOVE John Romita Jr whos men usually look like Frankenstien and women look like Elvira, but that's what makes me love it! His style is set apart, no matter how dated.

Point made about the gag artist and their approach, but I think angieness mentioned before that there should be some level of consent from the other artist as to how far one should go, right? Just out of assurance and consensus.

NOW for my critique!
To be honest I compared the two and I though Draxx had it in the bag UNTIL  I saw Pep's stuff. Really pulled out all stops on this one. I mean granted being though this would be the demise of his character if they didn't step it up, which Pep did. I agree on the length of the story, but I'd rather be safe than sorry in terms of content. I can't really mash on the quality because intent vs lack of skill can not be debated from this standpoint. Despite everyone's critique, no one knows if both artist are firm into their approach in execution or if they just need some more refining. For God's sake look at Dandy Simpson's "Megaton Man".

What I can say is that both side's most notable infirmity is, you guessed it, the depiction of their opponent.
I feel that Pep's side added some that worked well and was even applicable to his stated history( been picked on as a child) but then kinda went south religiously.. which kinda sense according to where he was from. Granted I know it was the parody approach, but I would've been a more believable if you could have stayed on the extraterrestrial run, which everyone knows the sky's the limit ( no pun intended).

The  we have the Michael Chiklis of the Martian World "Draxx". Bgrounds and panels are always solid and impressive. Sequence uis well paced IMO. Now about our female guest appearance and intended victim. I got to agree with some of the others, only thing that makes her significant is how she looks. She had the depth of Austin Power's fembot and didn't really get as much play as I thought. Which, if it were me, would feel like she didn't stand a chance to you. AND even if you did feel that way, don't make it so FRAGGIN' obvious.

Godspeed people. I don't want either to go! Hey hey hey let's hope for 50%/ 50% so they'd... well I dont know how that would work. but good luck guys seriously.

When you're like me and can see who is voting on what, you will see that no one is cheating. I am able to view IPs and such and it is no longer possible to create dummy accounts for battles and vote right away. And I can guarantee you that the only person that has the power to decide the winner, that being Toast, would never do that.

I'm getting pretty tired of people making up conspiracy theories about the mods. We're not censoring you. We do not have the power to fix matches. Toast, the only person who would be able to, does not care enough about any character on the site enough to totally fuck over the artists and the community to start choosing winners.

Stop with the conspiracy theories and deal with the fact that gee, maybe someone has a different opinion than you. I'm not trying to be a bitch here, but after being accused of so many things I don't even have the power to do, I'm getting kind of tired of people thinking the mods are evil ban happy people who pick winners and censor the masses. Let's be realistic. If anyone doesn't like how anyone votes on the site um..go somewhere else? Because I can't tell people who to vote for or how to vote.  Votes are the opinion of the community, if you don't like their opinion there's really not much that can be done about it.

7 Artists must have made all the comics in the 90's. When I'm commenting on MOST of something I'm NOT commenting on 7 guys doing a good job.

And the difference between Rob Liefeld and Picasso is that Picasso could actually draw. There are plenty of older works and sketches that show this. He learned how to actually draw actual items and THEN he abstracted them, that's how successful cartooning happens, that's how successful stylization happens. Rob Liefeld cannot and never could draw people, which is fine, he changed an industry and became wildly successful without a single shred of relevant skill. He lucked out and happened to create the exact right style for the time and audience. Personally I'm a huge fan of the person, because that's an amazing accomplishment and I don't think it's right to hate someone because of their artwork, but the joke is over and that time period has passed. Don't crawl up your ass over the fact that I said something unkind about your favourite era of comics, listen to the critiques that make it very clear that it's an era of comics that the majority of readers have no interest in returning to. If you want to do this, you either need to update it or go more all out. More teeth, more pockets, more explosions, the whole thing.

And Babylon55, stop posting.

And any comments removed on previous battles were removed because they caused problems. It is very rare I have to remove a comment, but if I see drama happening, I delete all the comments involved. If you see that as censoring then it can't be helped. I'm doing my job as a mod, if people cause problems or one comment causes a big angry reaction I have to take care of it. If I remember correctly one of your students said something that set someone off and it was dealt with.

I would also like to say as one of the 3 people that has the power to remove comments on the site, no censoring has happened. I have not removed a single comment on this battle. It's unlikely that Toast would and Wei would have informed me had he removed any comments. So no, no censoring has happened at all.

And for the record my two biggest influences were Todd McFarlane and J Scott Campbelll. (the latter I met at WW and fan girled out) There is no foul play going on with the votes or the comments, I have been watching them closely.

Coldstream, that anything happened on previous battle comments does not give you the right to suddenly say that, or IMPLY that, it has happened here. That is irresponsible and out of line of you, and you know it.  By claiming that it is happening when it has not just looks like you are attempting to start drama and shit with the mods and make it look like you are being treated unfairly by those running the site. THIS IS NOT HAPPENING. The ONLY time the three who can walk in and put their foot down in the comments do anything is when people are going far over the line. And when they do move in, they post to that effect. They do not stealth in and secretly and quietly remove comments from one person over another to make one side look bad or better. Do not accuse the mods and administrators of the site of being bias and treating you unfairly when they are doing no such thing. Do not accuse the mods or administrators of this site in a way to make you look the martyr or inflame your students/supporters when nothing of the sort is happening. It is unbecoming of an adult and just looks like you are throwing a tantrum.

That Jack or anyone else would make a blanket statement about a period of art that they don't like is not a shock. They are entitled to that opinion. I can say with a straight face that I dislike a time period of art... say Picasso. Wow, I hated Picasso and don't think he could draw for crap. Guess what, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to say it. You are entitled to disagree. That's how it works.

As for why I, or anyone else, might be nitpicking your anatomy it is because of your style. I don't go after some people for anatomy because their entire style is supposed to be wacky, unrealistic, goofy, and pure cartoon. But you present a style that is far more realistic and that makes me notice and comment on the parts that look off in a realistic setting. I try not to blanket my comments in a sense of 'they must all fit into my ideal comic style and I will go after the anatomy of any that don't!' and I'm sure others on the site do, too. They look at your particular style and try to see what could be made BETTER about it. The comments section is a place for opinions and suggestions, not ego-stroking and ass-patting. That means that people are going to point out things that they, personally, think could be better. I think some of your anatomy, in a more realistic comic style, could be better. I think Pepperoni's backgrounds and consistency could be better even in a gag comic.

The only thing that I ever blanket critique and go after is the writing/grammar/spelling.

All those artists you mentioned before are pretty cool, Coldstream, they are jsut not in this battle.

No comments have been removed from this battle, but they have been on previous battles.

I'm not saying they can't like a certain style, but to say that most artists from a decade couldn't draw is irresponsible and disrespectful. Greed and mass marketing nearly killed the industry in the 90s. I'm not calling foul on Pepperoni, but most of the criticisms against me are on story and, rediculously enough, anatomy. Pepperoni has completely fabricated Draxx's back story, and his anatomy is absurd.

First off: Coldstream, none of the comments have been 'censored' at all. I've been watching to make sure any actual drama is cut off before it gets going. Do not start wildly accusing the mods of being against you or your supporters, please.

Battle:

Pepperoni: Like others have said, the art needs some work and love. You kind of rushed things, which is understandable when you see how many pages you were intent upon doing. I have a problem with, and hate doing, backgrounds... but they are being focused on and demanded here in VOID more and more and it is very apparent that people aren't getting away with skimping on them. (Much to my chagrin...) Try to give them and your art a little more TLC to polish things up. You made me laugh, which was fun in a death match, and since you were mocking everyone in this I did not see any pointed nastiness or targeted attempts at being out of line rude. Your Quality score was lower but your Creativity and Entertainment were pretty strong.

Coldstream: Your comic was interesting and the art was pretty good, but it felt cut and dry and 'insert any character here' which was unfortunate. You failed to actually depict any of Rad Girl's real powers in your side... you stuck a brain slug on her, sexed her up, and tossed up a very quick fight that could have been any super-powered girl in a bikini. Not once did you use her 'rad' 'lame' belt and powers properly, so it is kind of tit-for-tat that you didn't like how she did Draxx in her comic. Also, while I enjoyed your backgrounds and settings, and you obviously took a lot of time for the pages and work, some things seemed odd to me. What happened to the blood? Draxx smashed his head and there was blood all around him on the floor... and from his nose and mouth. And then a page later... poof, magically the blood is gone. In a comic that is more realistic/nitty-gritty the sudden loss of details from previous pages threw me. All in all, your Quality score was higher for me but your Creativity and Entertainment were lower.

And to address the 'drama':  You fought a GAG ARTIST. If you have looked at any of her previous works it is pretty OBVIOUS that she is a humor/gag artist and not doing serious and 'hardcore' stories. Why in the name of God would you be shocked or upset to see her take your character and make a gag/parody of him? IT IS WHAT SHE DOES TO EVERYONE SHE BATTLES. You have only yourself to blame if you do not like what she did, because she has never once tried to hide her comic type from anyone on this site. When you decide to fight someone on VOID it is up to you to read up on their previous work and understand what you're getting into. Especially on something like a scar or death match. That you, or anyone else, would try to call foul on a gag artist doing gags is a bit unattractive and immature sounding. You failed to present her character as she was created, too, so do stop pointing fingers. Also, the comments area is a place for people to present their opinions on the matter. That a few people dislike a particular style is fine for them to say. It is fine for them not to like any style and it is fine for them to say so. What is not fine is excessive drama. The only time one of the THREE people able to edit/delete/censor posts moves in is when drama has gone over a line and fighting starts. This has not happened here and no posts have been removed. If you think anything has been unfairly removed, censored, or gone over a line you and anyone else has the right and ability to contact any of the mods to bring it up and discuss it in a mature and proper fashion. Throwing out accusations which are unfounded and untrue only causes more bickering and drama.

Windsor... excuse me!!

I had a lot of time to think about this battle yesterday. Driving home from Boston with three senior citizens provides ample time for thoughtful contemplation in the various bathrooms along the way. The only thing I really felt deserved rebuttal were the comments about the 90s. Anyone who blanketly states that most artists in the 90s couldn't draw is completely ignorant( Jim Lee, Mike Turner, Marc Silvestri, Bart Sears, J Scott Campbell, Barry Winsor Smith, Joe Quesada…). I think this reflects the arrogance and self-righteousness that often plagues these comment boards. I also want to state for the record that I love Rob Liefeld!!! Sure his anatomy is wacky, but at least his drawings are fun and enjoyable. They certainly aren’t anymore exaggerated than any other cartoon gibberish that is posted on this site. I would also like to point out that comments supporting my art have been censored, but the ”fucking Jews” comment remains.

I’m sure this will be deleted as well!

I don't have much to say but

Pepper: I have to admit, I had to pause and take a few breaks every 7 pages or so, but once I got to the middle of the comic, I was able to read all the way through. Everything was kinda crazy in the beginning, but I think it all came together the more you read. I liked it, it was very clever haha Especially the ending. This was great!

Cold: I actually really like the style you did this in. For me it worked really well with the story. I liked how you ended it. Where you had this violent scene, but added a bit of humor in there as well, It kept it balanced. Like Yours wasn't full on comedy like Pep's, but you still had that sublte humor and I liked that a lot! It worked well. Nice job.

This is touuugh @3@

hmmm....wish I had something important to add to this...

I wish Rad Gal would be more Rad...Pep I really enjoyed your first comic...this one didnt do it for me I did enjoy it more than Coldstreams comic...but not by much...

Coldstream...I saw what you were attempting to do but I dont think you pushed it far enough this comic could have been even more epically 90's do it much much bigger next time...

that is of course if you survive

I really enjoy both sides of the story. I want to vote Bias on one side, but the story on rad girls side is awesome, but the work on draxx is awesome as well. So I'm stuck at a stand still. So Unfortunately I cannot vote heavily on one side. Good luck to the both of you.

These are awsome guys. Pep you are truly funny as hell. Cold your perspective is very nice and the overall quality of your artwork is very strong. Good job you guys. I like it, I like it.

Draxx, there is a reason that mainstream comics are not as popular as they once were. There is a reason the 90s almost killed the industry.

Is it the sexism? Probably not, though you sure went full-throttle on that one. Maybe it's how incredibly generic works of that genre were during that period. Maybe it's because costuming can only take a reader's interest so far.

I have no idea who Draxx is as a character. I didn't know the first time you used him, and I don't know now. You could replace Draxx with a whole lot of generic smarmy buff guys, and the exact same things would happen. Draxx has no defining qualities other than what he looks like, and even that isn't exactly compelling stuff.

If you can't write a compelling character when it is *your* character, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that your depiction of Rad Gal is so LOOK, A SET OF TITS. Here, let's have these two characters (who should be distinct) speak in gendered versions of the same voice. Let's throw around some bad witticisms. This is how a comic is made.

I noticed that you cameo'd a few characters in this comic. The creators probably appreciate it, but who the hell would be friends with Draxx? Think about the guy's behavior. That's not how you make friends.

I'm not even going to go into the anatomy thing. Didn't you say once that you teach this stuff - sequential art, at some school somewhere? Pick up one of Hogarth's 'Dynamic' guides. Very helpful.

Pep-

I suppose it is a bit long, and there are some slow places. The bus-fight in particular didn't really capture my interest the way an EPIC BATTLE INVOLVING A BUS should. It's clear that Rad Girl is somewhat intelligent, at least, and that she has a sense of humor, but other aspects of her personality are less clear. I don't understand what her motivations or anything are, but perhaps this is something that is easily solved by checking a character profile. I am inclined to like Rad Girl more than Draxx (or at least the creator's depiction of the character), but I don't know all that much about her. That said, I have to give props where props are due - you crafted a coherent story that isn't entirely generic, and I have no fucking clue why people are offended by Draxx having a Jewish father. Do Jewish fathers not exist in the universe of Void, or something?

Jack Hates You makes a really good point about a general lack of 'radness'. I had no idea that the 'Rad' in 'Rad Girl' had anything to do with being radical, I'd just assumed she was somehow radioactive or something. I got a better idea of what her powers are as the comic progressed, but even then I was like 'does she get radical when she gets mad? Is that it?" I have to admit that I'm still not 100% on that. Once again, I could check the profile, but I feel like this kind of thing should be pretty clear in the comic, since it's so integral to the character. If Rad Girl lives through this one, definitely include a lot more rad next time. Rainbows and unicorns, being ridden by knights with blinged-out techno armor and walking statues of former Presidents. You know. Rad things.

Everyone's already talked to you about backgrounds and stuff. While I can see why you skimped (They aren't that pertinent), Void seems to really like full environments, and I respect that. It can only help make you better, if you focus on it.

Pep: Your comic was too long and all that other stuff people said except re: the jew jokes. As a half jewish, half Episcopalian person I thought it was hilarious. Guy looked just like my dad.  (He just bought a Kippo recently and has been wearing it around too lol, that jew. Oy Vey.) I suppose it's writers/artists like you that remind us not to take our own work/characters so SUPER SERIOUS. Yeah it' sa  death match, things should be justified, and even as grueling boring it was to click through the pages after a while, (I still love ya man but I found myself skimming just so you know)  I thought the way you set up the death of your opponent to be a lot more interesting than just slapping her in the face with badass and cutting her head off.  Draw some backgrounds dude. I know I have that problem too but you won't get better at it by ignoring it! |:<

Coldstream: I generally liked the layout and flow of your story, but yeah, I have to agree with Pep. Rad Gal in this case could have been any hot chick in purple pleather. I would have liked to see you play with her powers more, or figure out a way to turn them against her a bit more obviously. Honestly though? I find endless badassery really boring. Let's see the guy unsure. Let's see the guy break the box of his own stereotype. I really was amused with Pep's silliness but it honestly got me more interested in Drax than your comic, regardless of how "in character" it was or not.  Chillax, dude, and I think some practice in anatomy NOT out of "How to draw comic" books will help out tons.  You're aiming for anatomical based exaggeration, you need to understand what it is you're exaggerating. I heard advice from wossisname who drew Watchmen (I just woke up and haven't had my coffee yet forgive me) who said "Every line must have a purpose" - Heed it.

Nobody portrayed anyone's character accurately here, which is fine because both comics would have sucked if either artist had attempted.

Coldstream I'm starting with you because reading the comics and comments has left me unsure of some basic principles. I had thought you'd created Draxx as a tribute/parody to the shitty comics produced by Liefeld and friends in the 90's. I'm starting the think the reason your women look so manly and your men lack jaw definition, despite all the excessive lines marking their faces, is because you haven't realized that Liefeld and most of the people making comics in that period WERE VERY VERY BAD AT DRAWING. It's starting to look like rather than a tribute/parody that Draxx is actually a just a comic series lost in time, which is bad. With a character as lacking in definition as Draxx it's really difficult to expect a comedic author to not take liberties and change things up, or else they're left with an unfunny Lobo, which, of course, sucks. I realize these comics might be your thing, and that's cool, to each their own, but realize that that sort of comic doesn't see much daylight anymore. I think you should try to bring yourself into the 21st Century, whether it be by contributing to the joke or updating your style.

And don't EVER complain about another person mistreating your character when you did the exact same thing, but hid behind a brain slug to do it. Ugly behaviour man.

Pepperoni, I enjoyed it, the writing wasn't bad. I thought making Draxx be born Draxella was hilarious, and I liked Draxx the loveable Oaf a lot. The whole Drax being raised Jewish thing, I thought was hilarious. You didn't do a bad job writing the father, which impressed me. (PS-Anyone saying "I don't find it realistic that the space badass that's fighting the girl who gets super powers when rad stuff happens was Jewish" sounds like an anti-semite who's made uncomfortable by the fact that a character he likes was depicted as a Jew, pinch yourself, idiot.) The artwork was lacking, though I think that was based on your current abilities. Get better, draw more, work on your layouts. Also, the biggest disappointment in Rad Gal comics is an overall lack of rad things. a bus getting cut in half, pretty rad, but I also want to see those other things that she's just imagining. You need to go all out for the Rad Gal gag to work. Wizards with big titties riding Unicorns with bigger titties in space and shit should be depicted and not just mentioned, anyone can say it, you're an artist, do it.

Whatever I said aside, neither of these comics was a bad comic or an unentertaining read. This was a damn fine death match, you two are damn fine comic artists, and I hope whoever loses stays with us and makes an even better character. Damn fine character.

Apologies if I came across as angry or anything.  

You've never heard of the Jews in Space?   When I'm more awake I will go through and make some sort of crits.

I'm keeping an eye on the comments, I would rather not see this get out of hand but I will step in if need be. I have a long day at work and will be very unhappy if the first thing I have to do is play clean up crew on dramas when I get home, so please keep it civil.

The bottom line is this: On Void, if you do not want your characters to be portrayed in a way you don't want them to, be careful who you battle. It doesn't hurt to discuss things with your opponent before hand if you are really concerned about how someone will portray a character. If you didn't talk to your opponent before the battle, you're going to have to deal with the possible consequences. I understand this is a death match and no one is going to be collaborating on one, but again, it never hurts to talk to your opponent before you fight them. This is the risk you take.

Ahahaha. Yes, that is much more accurate!

Yeah I know about the backgrounds. I started out pretty good, but wore down about half way through- I guess its a lesson in quality over quantity.

So, I kinda didn't wan to respond to this, because I don't want to spark controversy where there isn't any, but I also want to put it to rest;

Disabilities; I made Draxx an average intelligence. I made everyone from his planet ridiculously smart and cartoony. I didn't poke fun at a disability. I'm in my right mind, I would not insult a disability.

Judaism; Its a stereotype, yeah, but its a risque one - at best. What I put up there is closer to an episode of 'Hey Arnold' than it is to an episode of 'South Park'. I'm in my right mind, I would not insult a religion.

There is such a thing as being too politically correct. Oy vey!

I, uh, didn't think the portrayal of Rad Gal was... necessary? You could insert another female character in there, with the same dialogue (minus the bit about jasper) and it would be the exact same comic.  

I made Draxx - (Phillip C put it best) a 'lovable oaf'. Your character is an extreme, and I just put him at the opposite end of the spectrum. That isn't unfair, thats parody.

I'm really sorry you didn't enjoy it. I'm kind of disappointed with myself. If its any consolation though, I had a lot of fun with these, and I would definitely battle you again in the future.

Ddin't think the portryal of Draxx was fair or accurate. Obvious attepts at Humor with"Liefield"... he seems to be the butt of many comic fans' bad jokes(spelled wrong by the way... Liefeld). Thought my anatomy was OK in most places, but there were a couple of iffy panels!

Right on. Cut down the length, bring up the quality, and zoom the hell out every now and then.

And backgrounds.

I think these are pretty good assessments.

Pepperoni
This comic didn't really need to be that long. It got kind of painful to read after page 5. It just took an extremely long time to get to the point of the comic and there were several unamusing stops on the way. The art just seemed lazy. 5 well drawn pages would have been better than 30 average ones. I enjoyed the Jewish Drax and the child hood flashbacks but after that I just couldn't muster up the energy to care about the story. At about page 3 I check the story length and was just disheartened. I am not saying it was a bad story, there just wasn't enough interesting material to warrant 30 pages. After a while the pages looked kind of half assed, especially 17 where Drax cuts a bus in half. You directly avoided drawing the bus, you showed us the bottom and the side, but you didn't put the effort into actually looking up a bus and drawing it to completion. You have an awesome action scene wit ha guy cutting a bus in half and instead of showing us that scene in all its glory, you take the lazy way out and give us close ups without ever giving us the action shot that sequence deserves. You have Michael Bay action happening, but on a B-movie budget. I enjoyed the Ren and Stimpy esque cartooning but I feel it still needs a tad bit more work to it. The backgrounds kind of disappointed me. Especially after page 12... the just seemed like an after thought after that. They are just kind of fudged in after the fact and don't look like you created the scene with them in mind.

Coldstream
I wanted tighter anatomy and perspective from you on this death match. I enjoyed the story, it fit hte whole 80's low budget sci fi movie feel that Draxx invokes and fits the genre very well. I can understand why people may not like this story, but growing up and enjoying movies like Howard the Duck, Starship Troopers and a myriad of unkown b-movies set in space this felt right a home for me. It would have been a little batter if this could have catered to more people other than the that crowd but I found it an easy read.

Both
Neither one of these felt crisp and clean enough for a death match. I don't ever vote so don't fret about this but I feel like I have seen both of you do better. As for Pepperoni, despite popular belief bigger is not better and this story could have been half the length and thusly made if twice as enjoyable. I really want Cold to tightn up his anatomy and perspective a bit (well that goes for both of you) The dialogue was good on both, its refreshing to read  stories on this site where people talk like actual human beings and not badly translated English(I am not talking about the actual second language English people it's not your fault, but the Americans) So that was a major plus. Its very rare that I can read a story all the way through without stopping and I could do that with both of these.

Geez, that's a long comic there Pepperoni, but I can see a lot of effort here on both parts, but lots to work on.



Coldstream: I read yours first cause you asked me if you could use my character, and I'm happy you kept it respectful. However... I can't help but think that he could of not been there and the story would remain the same. It's just that in your last comic against me, Draxx slammed him against a car and threw him out a window (which to my argument isn't the worst Redblood Phill has gone through since he got plowed THROUGH a car ;3), so... why is he with him and why does he think it's cool to be there? Your art is great (I'll get to that in a moment), but this whole story is just not very well thought out in my eyes. How does Draxx go from getting a concussion with sever bleeding to standing straight up cutting off the head of his adversary? You'd think that super soldier or not, he wouldn't be walking properly for the next couple of hours (which would of made the idea of him concurring his foe more exciting and entertaining in the end).

I just couldn't really get into this comic, how are the aliens a threat to Draxx and others aside from attaching brain slugs to peoples heads ("Sure you say that NOW, but how's that going to work for me?" -Fry), and if he has the tech available to track a furry down with nanites, wouldn't something in his arsenal go batshit crazy and detect this genuine threat to him? You've got the set up, but to me you're not using it properly. The art now, I think it's pretty good this time around, the coloring could use more work, not as many strange anatomy quirks, but they're still there however. Example of this is the concussion panel, I'm no expert, but his head looks a bit wonky there, I wasn't too sure really, I kinda thought it fit the idea that he was genuinely hurt, but when he got back up, his skull was perfectly round again. I do think your anatomy and consistency is improving, but you really gotta take your time on these things. Overall, the art was great if a bit wonky, but the story just needs a bit more thought into it.




Pepperoni: I'm first going to say that I was afraid to read your comic because of the Monday-esque length, but overall I was entertained. I liked the characterization of Draxx, as you used his backstory to great effect and made him more of a lovable oaf with a chip on his shoulder. However, I thought it was a bit lowbrow to really make this a bit of a critique on the character of Draxx himself through what we've all read. I didn't find it insulting though and I don't see this as you aiming to really sling mud on Coldstream's character. I really did enjoy this comic overall, I thought the story was very cleaver and not as cheesy as your first battle.

However, the art just wasn't too my liking, I did like your use of expressions, but your panels were often very cluttered. You seriously need to zoom out with your shots more often; coldstream did this with great effect with his comic. You just need to make your panels not so cluttered. Still though, lots of effort on your part, and I was quite entertained by this.




Both of you did great on this and put your best forward despite some troubles here and there, should one of you lose your character, I would love to see how you fair with artist battles or your next character (you guys could get a character in quite easily if you ask me), but I'm siding with Pepperoni on this one for his writing and characterizations of both characters.

All done... boobs... bullies... talking fetus.

All done... boobs... blood... beer!!

Down to the WIRE!

OH MAH GAWD.

LESS DAN TWENTEH FOU' HOAS.

Well anyway, good luck on finishing Cold, just remember to better prepare yourself should you accept scar or death matches with this or a different character. Pepperoni, I hope you also have something good, you had a shaky last match but I hope that the extra time you have will more than make up for it.

Good luck.

... k?

Man, you aint have to put me on blast about the correction.
Though, I should be vengeful for your last comment over on my side.

You'll have to excuse my endless babble. Fever... ear ache... head ache... LOTS of medication... and TEQUILLA?

No, it won't let me extend... no sleep for the next 2 days!!! Yay!!!

From what I can tell it's not, no extensions are allowed on death/scar matches.

So... is it extended?

EXTENSION... for mrnoitaull!!!!

Oh poo.. no etnesion on DeathMartches... argh!!!

Wednesday not Friday... decongestant induced typo!

Probably gonna extend... leaving town on Friday, and I won't have access to the internet or a scanner.

KILL!!!

Surprise!
One Week until Deeeeaaath

Woah, I'm in a match!?

Posted a preview in the Battle Hype forum!! Check it!!

Radgirl and Draxx...we hardly knew ye..

Draxx in a recliner... 'nuff said!!

clever quote her..............

CHOOSE YOUR DESTINY

Exactly!!!...

HAHA WHAT

...MORTAL KOMBAT!!!

OH SNAP!!!

I knew the name RAD gal was there for something

oh damn!

oh dear god

It should be fun!!

AGH!!!!


...napkin?

Whoop whoop!! DEATH MATCH!!!