Guys, please keep this to PMs. The battle comments are hardly the place for bickering. While yes, Mike Bush should elaborate on what is wrong with the comics and how to improve them, you guys shouldn't blow it way out of proportion either. If you guys would like to have a debate on how to critique and who can/cannot critique, please take it to the forums.
Mike Bush:
So if you don't make comics, you can't say other comics are bad. Kewl.
That's not correct, but that's not also what was said.
If you don't make comics you CAN'T say if someone used more or less effort in such a thing you've never made.
Mike Bush:
So if you don't make comics, you can't say other comics are bad.
No one said that. We are saying you should give reasons. You can not say simply say no effort went in to them because you don't know that.
Your challenge now is to explain eloquently why you believe these comics are bad. To anyone else it would be obvious that they took longer than an hour to draw, and that they are supposed to be 3 panel gag strips - So you won't be making that comparison again, lest you wish to appear stupid.
An example of why you shouldn't do this, suppose I were to accuse you of taking no effort on your music. I can't possibly know that because I have no frame of reference as I have never put together a track myself, and I don't know how much effort is required. I can criticise it on other factors such as bad sound quality or lack of rhythm, because that is something I can appreciate as a listener.
Also; The word is elitism.
So if you don't make comics, you can't say other comics are bad. Kewl. So what we have here is elite-ism. Sorry i'm not one of you. I'll just crawl into a corner and die. k thx bye.
Mike Bush:
You're right, it is harder. Too hard it would seem. Lesson learned right?
That's not helpful now is it? 3 panel comics are an art form like any other. Perhaps suggest improves rather than just tear things down. It IS possible to tell a story adequately with 3 panels (example below). If you didn't believe they did a good job of it say why and suggest improvements.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc1/drsaltjournal/Special/MikeBush1.jpg
michaelharris:
and seriously you don't have to currently play football to be a football coach. You just have to have an understanding of the game.
i hear you. i wholeheartedly agree when it comes to actual critiques. but frankly, when it comes down to questioning something like effort, one should at the very least attempt to show some them self; regardless of capability, before using that as a judgment call on others. it'd be one thing to have tried & happen to be incapable. it's another to not have anything to show for period, & then say 'you're not trying hard enough' to someone else. especially when it isn't the case.
that's all i was trying to say.
-J
I really enjoyed these. I am usually benignantly ambivalent to the other stuff, but I liked this. I don't really see what all the controversy is. I lean slightly towards GVSR, due to the skull bringing me back to my art school days, and I really enjoyed the borders and such. I see that they did put forth effort, all the art was structurally and stylyistically sound. If that bothers you just consider this a comic strip instead of pages. and seriously you don't have to currently play football to be a football coach. You just have to have an understanding of the game.
funny you're the judge of effort, rone.
where are your comics again?
you can tell a story in one image. doing it in three is just better pacing. each story did have a story. no one says you have to like everything you read, but your criteria for critique is skewed & lame.
-J
And as was stated before, Hiemie and I agreed to a three panel MAXIMUM when the challenge was issued. That was the challenge, BEST THREE PANELS. It has nothing to do with effort or pride, it has to do with us agreeing to meet limiting criteria (which we both did).
It's considerably harder to make something that will fit exceptionally limiting specifications than it is to give both opponents free license to do whatever the hell they want, keep that in mind.
I DID say what I didnt like. They didn't put forth any effort. They are 3 pages long. They don't contain any sort of storyline. They were drawn in an hour or so at most. It's better than defaulting, I'll give credit for that, but people ought to have pride in their work.
Is that better? Do you guys read my other comments in other battles? I'm usually the guy that gushes compliments at the other artists. I have a right to dislike comics just as much as I do to like the good ones. Just telling everyone they are good doesn't make them get any better.
Mike Bush:
Where the heck is my crit? We aren't allowed to call crappy comics crappy anymore? There was NO thought or effort put into either of these. I stand by my opinion.
Crit? Maybe you should offer an opinion instead of just bashing them. What about these comics don't you like? Either say something logical and thoughtful, or take jacks advice and shut up.
Mike Bush:
Where the heck is my crit? We aren't allowed to act like pricks to make ourselves feel cool anymore? There was NO thought or effort put into my critique because I wanted to be a rude cocksucker. I stand by being a douchebag.
Jesus would you just shutup?
Where the heck is my crit? We aren't allowed to call crappy comics crappy anymore? There was NO thought or effort put into either of these. I stand by my opinion.
I have to admit that, despite the surely qualified doctor, no lifes were birthed in this comic?
michaelharris:
dammit what is the skull from, again?
http://www.pureinsight.org/node/3115
Hans fcuking Holbein? When you come up with a character like GVSR the least you can do is have him do an Andrea Mantegna imitation and become GVST. Christ.
votes to pong for what I think is a better display of visual aesthetics.
You two know I've got nothing but love for you guys, but I really didn't get either single gag as being too great.
Hiemie, it was short and fun, but I must not have gotten the joke.
Pong, I wish you'd pushed the surrealism or existentialism angle more, and I really like the last page. I'm curious why the \"HE\" is bolded though.
Aaaaaahh...you guys...so subtle...so clever...so hilarious...
Come on...\"It's Garbage Day!\" BOOM! BRILLIANT!
FUCKING BRILLIANT...
I laughed for about 10 minutes....then I told my lady about it...
she didnt laugh though...
she's a hater
As minimal as both entries were, I enjoyed the simplicity of both of them.
Hiemie - I do enjoy a good re-telling of a gag, and yours always makes me smile. Mr Sun's close up was jolly good and downright disturbing. Though for some reason just the one gag alone left me a little empty. I couldn't say why, but probably because I've seen it done so many times.
Pong- Love the frame work dude. At first when I saw the warped image under the doctor, I thought you just gave him a massive missle boner for humor's sakes, but now I see you were playing on an optical illusion done in that one famous painting. ( Forgive me I can't remember the actual title or painter, but you ought to know what I mean! :| )
Good job boys, but Pong has won my miniscule heart on this.
Pong, your skull isn't skewed enough. I can still tell what it is and this makes me angry.
Both your styles are getting so similiar. I think you are the same person.
pong: I don't get what the big elongated skull-looking thing is on the first page or why it's there.. I think you made this three-panel theme work really well, though, with the pages that look like picure frames.
Heimie: I know people keep mentioning this, but your colors are so basic crayon colors that the end result ends up kind of boring.. I think the large panels make this more apparant, without the fun panel layouts of past comics to make things interesting.
Also, maybe some black shadows would improve the lineart... you use a lot of thick, black lines for panel borders and outlines and such; maybe it would unify things if you worked that into the figures a bit more.
i dont really get either battle... but, fuck if i dont love that little red card man... i want to use him in a battle some how.. for some reason...
and i still plan on drawin mr.sun just to see what the fuck that would look like...
oh yeah and stop fighting yall.. just hug...in the nude.
Comments (41)
Incredible
GVSR 's comic is such a melodramatic slice of life. And darkly relatable.