New Opportunities / Dane

New Opportunities — Dane


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Heathen
Artist
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235 comments
# 14   Posted: Oct 16 2018, 02:14 PM
Croc, your examples are on point. These are little things that mostly come down to just how the dialogue is worded, and sometimes things have to be spelled out more than you think they do. Clear delivery of exposition is something I struggle with, and it’s probably one of the hardest lines to toe when writing, to maintain the balance of natural dialog and nuance with making sure your reader is delivered the information necessary to have the proper context for your story to be effective. It’s monumentally difficult to get the movie in your head onto the page.

Crocostyle
Artist
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28 comments
# 13   Posted: Oct 15 2018, 10:12 PM
Yeah, sorry for the confusion, guys. I should thank Heathen for the rescue. I was unclear because I didn't correctly articulate what was wrong.  But what heathen said is essentially the critique I should have given.

A great comic should wrap you in even with no knowledge of anything. This is hard to do, and can feel like babysitting. But average joes like me NEED that. We don't have time to do research before consuming media, or sharing it to our non-void friends--they just wouldn't get it.  You don't need to do a whole splash page a la "in the previous issue..!", but at least give a few tiny hints here and there.

like "most know him as Osiris-he hates it!" -  Why should I be interested about him, or this organization? you can add a hint at his affiliation here, disguised as a hint about his name.

"certain things are popular that should not be"  - is this about degenerate clubbing? or are furries the problem?

"win them, and especially her, over." to what? joint venture? music propaganda? or just for Dane to pretend to be a sweet dude until he can drug her?

None of these require spelling out your secrets, I just need enough of a hint to gain interest.  (sigh) I hope I'm making sense here.  Just know I'm not out to act all entititled and tear you down. I just want to be engaged as you are in this story, and a little extra context goes a long way.

ThorHugs
Artist
icon
45 comments
# 12   Posted: Oct 15 2018, 09:11 PM
Okay, but a single person's BB comments are for feedback for that person. Not making broad sweeping statements about irritations with the site as a whole. Heathen, you gave decent examples and feedback. Crocostyle just said "I don't like it because everyone does it." Specifically citing that he has to go back and read to get the specific details. Like Thren said: Beyond Battles kind of assume you're going in for the story and what's been built up already.

As for the Osiris thing, it's literally right on his profile. I didn't update it to include the name Carmichael until recently.

Heathen
Artist
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235 comments
# 11   Posted: Oct 15 2018, 08:56 PM
To Crocostyle's note on continuity and standalone comics, Thor, it isn't the ongoing nature of Void comics that's the problem, it's the lack of exposition being delivered in them. Continuity is a major part of mainstream comics, but if you pick up any random issue of Batman or Spider-man, you'll get the gist of what's been going on up to that issue from the dialogue and narration in that issue. Sometimes even just starting with a page that tells the story thus far is enough, but however you do it, everything has to be made crystal clear to the reader. When comics are made only for members of the site, the site dies. You have to make your story and characters clear to someone who's never heard of them before. That's how you draw people in.

The Osiris thing is another common trap people fall into, which is referencing things in a comic that aren't established in a previous comic, just in discord, or hangouts, or some thread somewhere on the site. If it didn't happen in a comic, it didn't happen. And even if it did happen in a comic, assume your reader didn't read that comic.

mortooncian
Artist
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110 comments
# 10   Posted: Oct 15 2018, 08:55 PM
@ Crocostyle:  The importance of a Beyond Battle is to further a character's story. Further, not establish. As in... expand upon the story already established, in previous comics and battles, because an arc in a narrative is a string of sequences.

If you're going into reading a Beyond Battle, it's usually with the precedence of it adding onto a character's existing story. I can't be any clearer in saying... you're kind of getting mad at the comic.... for following its intended purpose??? ??? ??? So I don't understand your comment here either.

ThorHugs
Artist
icon
45 comments
# 9   Posted: Oct 15 2018, 08:30 PM
To clear up some confusion: This was meant to be a prelude to plots to come. Both with Gray and with Xia. The implication was meant to be that Carmichael did mean literally to head right over and not take even the smallest detour. However, I can see why that didn't come across so clear. And the name note thing was because up until this comic, everywhere on the site before I had only referred to Dane's boss as Osiris.

@Crocostyle: Honestly, it's more fun and challenging to weave an ongoing narrative across multiple comics. Heck, a lot of people even included big collab events in their narrative. I dunno what to tell you on that front. People have built up character relationships in comics since the beginning. That's a matter of personal taste that I highly doubt is going to change any time soon.

Additionally, broader stories is exactly what Beyond Battles are FOR. You know that, right? Like we have Beyond Battles for character building and the stuff between the fights.

      Edited Oct 15 2018,  08:40 PM by ThorHugs

Crocostyle
Artist
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28 comments
# 8   Posted: Oct 15 2018, 07:15 PM
As far as comics go, your art goes above and beyond, Thor.  Honestly it's hard to crit without getting super nitpicky or just reiterating others.  I agree very much with Arts+Heathen. I didn't get the significance of stealing Grey's donut; the last page seems like it was meant to continue, but a page was missing. The biggest issue for me though, is the same thing that I feel plagues every single battle here-- It doesn't stand well on its own.  So many Void comics rely on you knowing each character's prior battles front to back, and I just can't stand having to look back to see what the point of these characters' relations are to each other.  

That said, this is still an amazing comic, and I do not mean to take away from the tremendous effort you put into it!  Wishing you the best of luck with future stories, dude!

ThorHugs
Artist
icon
45 comments
# 7   Posted: Oct 10 2018, 08:58 AM
@heathen: Shen explained that she is not a ghost. She only thinks she is. She is actually human with spooky powers and sort of blocks out memories of doing regular human things like eating.

Cracking Skulls
Global Moderator
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344 comments
# 6   Posted: Oct 10 2018, 12:42 AM
Ayyyyyy the BB you worked hard on is finally here! I'm gonna say again how happy I am you decided to included Xia in Dane's story, theres so much we can plan together!

On to some feedback from me. I love your coloring methods and you did great in experimenting with the club lighting nearing the end! I always loved how you splashed those hues around. When it comes to backgrounds, Im absolutely astonished at the amount of effort you put into those perspectives, as they can be really tricky, tho I do believe some parts *can* look a little off, like with Page 10, last panel, the glass bottle and cups align too far to the left, making it look slanted, breaking the 3 point perspective you have going on. My big a suggestion to that is to keep in mind with aerial views, as those props may have worked best if their top side were more visible than a profile take to them. My other note when it comes to dialogue is I personally believe you -might- have used too many ellipses for Osiris. Unless he has trouble putting words into sentences, he seems to pause too much during his dialogue. Usually that sorta thing is reserved for suspenseful moments or to give some sort of break between sentences.

Aside from those things, I loved what you did overall with your comic my dude! Can't wait to see more Dane comics from ya!!

Heathen
Artist
icon
235 comments
# 5   Posted: Oct 9 2018, 10:49 PM
Arts pretty much took the words out of my mouth. The first pages are wonderfully drawn, aside from Grey's weird, ugly face when she falls down. The background in the first panel is a standout, and I like how you gave the scene life with just a few distant pedestrians. Really well done. I, too, was immediately thrown by Grey standing on the sidewalk eating a donut. Why is she there? Isn't she an incorporeal ghost? How can she eat a donut? How can Dane tackle her? Am I just not up to speed on my Grey knowledge? Regardless, the scene serves no purpose, and was a missed opportunity to further bolster the themes of the plot. If I'm just missing something and the scene is needed, having him steal from a random citizen would have put the emphasis on the act, rather than the actors. Using Grey here just comes off as a cheap cameo, and distracts from What I think you're trying to show, which is that Dane is a rotten, donut-stealing dirt-dog who thinks with his stomach.

Without getting my ruler out and lining up the vanishing points, I can't be sure, but the perspective in a couple panels looks off. The one that stood out was the birds eye shot of Osiris's office. But the skewed perspective of it does lend an uncomfortable, dreamlike quality to the scene.

I'll also echo the sentiment that the final shot and V.O. isn't quite working as a cliffhanger. Osiris speaks too vaguely throughout, and, at face value, it seems Dane just did exactly what Osiris told him to do. I feel like the intention here was to show that his task became complicated by falling in love with his target, but his objective is never made clear. Is he supposed to kill her? Dane certainly behaves like someone about to commit a murder, he's sick with anxiety about the whole situation, but we can only speculate.

Final quibble, the editor's note about Osiris took me right out of the scene as well. Not knowing his name is Osiris (or rather, isn't?) beforehand, my brain was still trying to parse "What's Os--*" as my eye jumped down to the note. I like Arts's suggestion for how that dialogue could have been handled better.

Overall, great effort throughout, and a challenge to the rest of Void to push themselves with their art. Really inspiring work!

      Edited Oct 9 2018,  10:53 PM by Heathen

ArtsandGoodies
Think Tank
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111 comments
# 4   Posted: Oct 8 2018, 10:23 PM
I love everything about the art in this, from the colors to the shading to expressions.
However when it comes to the writing I don't understand a few of the elements. The first thing is the whole donut scene with Gray I have no idea why it's there and the story for the comic wouldn't change, this scene also meant you had to put in a little dialogue bubble to show scene transition when you could have just started there. I think page 4 could have been handled in a way so you didn't need to have that exposition bubble explaining the thing with Osiris name before we even meet him, it's weird that we know this little factoid about him before we even know who he is. a simple change could be just having the secretary guy interrupting him to let Dane correct himself, there are more organic ways to have conveyed this information.

I don't understand why what Osiris says on the final page is considered a caveat. All he did was steal a donut on the way there and had a bit on anxiety when there. From and outside perspective it looks like he did just as he was told and did his job well, he already completed it the same evening he was assigned. "Caveats" may be the wrong word unless he's going to get in trouble for stealing that donut or getting a drink at the bar before managing to find Xia , which doesn't make sense since he still did his job the same evening he was assigned, and considering the size of that club the fact he could find Xia so quickly would actually be something that would be considered him doing a great job. Osiris' final words on page 10 foreshadow a lot more tension than what actually happens and what he says after isn't that extreme to cause much tension.
Besides the clunky dialogue stuff the visual parts of the storytelling this are really good. the way you handle the looks of the two different scene really works and once again the art in this is amazing. Also it's cool seeing you add this new element to void and bringing back Lithium.

Shen
Global Moderator
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1240 comments
# 3   Posted: Oct 8 2018, 08:00 PM
Gorgeous backgrounds and colours! Im interested to see where this goes, and what their plans with Xia are! I could have used a LITTLE more information about who they are and what they want, but i like seeing Dane so nervous about it. His expressions were fantastic! If he thinks hes going to mess with Xia though, hes got a giant hunk of werewolf to go through first >=D Also thanks for the Gray cameo~ Dane is making an enemy of a lot of my characters today lol!

Majikura
Artist
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465 comments
# 2   Posted: Oct 8 2018, 05:11 PM
oho interesting.  It's nice to see Lithium back on the radar

ThorHugs
Artist
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45 comments
# 1   Posted: Oct 6 2018, 09:51 PM
A YEAR IN THE MAKING! sort of. I started this one right after I finished the summer jam last year. But then school and work happened. I'm kind of glad I waited. I tried all kinds of new things with it. Including a modified version of Petar's method of inking.

Comic Details -

 
Drawing Time: 1 week
Ended: Oct 15th, 2018
Votes Cast: 15
Page Views: 400

 

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