Smut Battle / Miller vs. Joey

Smut Battle — Miller vs. Joey

413 points
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by Dechado

347 points
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Critiques & Comments
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# 25   Posted: Jun 30 2015, 05:53 AM
Joeys power to boost ones sexual desires is meant to act as an aphrodisiac. It does not inhibit someones ability to consent, as it is explained on Page 5 on panels 2 and 3. However, Im the author and youre the audience, and from the below comments it is obvious I failed to show that.
Ill make Joey refrain from using that if it gives rapey vibes. I vow to do better.
If everything works out fine, Ill be able to explain properly why consent is so important to Joey/Lesdai.

Thanks for the feedback and the critiques, guys. Its really encouraging to receive positive comments about this battle, as I was stressing so much to get it done.

And as for the HOT SAUCE gag. Its actually just lube. Lmao.
So Millers anus is safe from any type of burn. lol

      Edited Jun 30 2015,  05:55 AM by Dechado

# 24   Posted: Jun 29 2015, 08:06 PM
MyCrownEatsPeople: I love how we've been referring to the sensitivity as getting too tumblr lol :')


# 23   Posted: Jun 29 2015, 04:42 PM
I love how we've been referring to the sensitivity as getting too tumblr lol :')

Global Moderator
# 22   Posted: Jun 29 2015, 01:18 PM
Tofubeast: And finally I'm docking Pyras a bajillion alien sex points for having no god damn tentacles.

Or pincers! XD oh man Pyras you totally dropped the ball!

Bottom line for me is I liked both of these and I didn't PERSONALLY read them as rapey and whether it was porn with or without plot I agree it would have been better built up more with smut as the payoff at the end. Also, Lilyfeather is probably going to be really fucking mad at these two for a while lol. So watch out for mailbox zombies.
PS you guys made me want to draw a smut battle now lol so next time, challenge me, I'll show you a good time XD

Community Manager
# 21   Posted: Jun 29 2015, 01:16 PM
Snap, I should have known I just had to draw sex to draw in the critique wave huh! XD

Thank you everyone for your critiques, I'll keep your advice in mind and, as usual, slowly figure out how to implement them in future comics.

      Edited Jun 29 2015,  01:17 PM by PyrasTerran

# 20   Posted: Jun 29 2015, 12:40 PM
Elge, Pyras:

If anything, the most offensive thing is that you guys both drew the placement/shape of balls improperly. There's some wacky dick gymnastics going on as well--granted, since these are both cartoon characters, realism can go a bit out the window, but when you do porn/stuff that's meant to titillate, by god you better have your anatomy down.

It seems like you both went for porn+plot. This lead to very little porn and a small amount of plot--balancing both could be worked upon. Reflect characters' emotions in the sex scenes, get abstract if you have to.

Your homework is to read a Gengoro Tagame, Jiraiya, or Mentaiko comic. Actually, please research Mentaiko's work, since he nails porn and plot while having a great balance of realism/cartoony that drawn porno needs. Ookami Shounen to Hamu no Hito is a great example, as is Priapus (now available in english

Pyras, your no backgrounds and covering stuff up with balloons is killing me. Elge, push that persrpective and work in some more shading.

And finally I'm docking Pyras a bajillion alien sex points for having no god damn tentacles.

# 19   Posted: Jun 29 2015, 11:33 AM
Agreeing with Nachte, having done a rape comic on the site in the pas,t I don't want to see us getting super tumblr. We have NSFW warnings on the site and considering the comic is called "smut battle", people should have been aware they were getting into some objectional content prior to reading. I didn't read either comic as being rapey, but I'm familiar with the tropes being used.

Really my only complaint with either was I feel like both of you tried to stick serious storytime/plot development in something called "smut battle". The sex felt placed in there just for the sake of being able to fit the theme. Once the sex scenes were over, everything else felt forced. I'm all for character development, but please be aware that you have viewers that likely skipped over this comic due to the sex content. So readers that come in at the next chapter of the arc might end up being a little lost. Not that I think porn can't have a story, just it's a really bad idea to put what could be big developments in the middle of a story that otherwise has no adult content.

You both also need to use some finished backgrounds. I've been using Photoshop long enough to know when people are using tricks like tons of black/dark colors and speed lines to hide having to mess with pesky details. Trim down your page counts if you can't take the time to make some complete backgrounds.

Cracking Skulls
Global Moderator
# 18   Posted: Jun 29 2015, 11:03 AM
I'm pretty picky with my porn. I'll start with Pyras.

Pyras: Tho I found the writing in this entertaining, I gotta say I think you could have done more than 1 1/2 pages of the actual thing going on. Usually you're supposed to build the whole thing up and have the climax (no pun intended) pay off, but I think you got the reverse going on. It was still entertaining, but for a smut battle I would have liked to see more, because what you had going on was a pretty good start. Maybe the encounter should have expanded more, which built up to the sex later, rather than focus on how Joey becomes an associate of Miller. I'm here for porn, dangit.

Elge: Dude you got a complete comic, I am super happy to see this! You have more of a build up and pay off imo, As much as I do like character development here, or the implication of that yet to come, I totally think you could have waited until they were at climax instead of right where Joey starts to enter Miller (hahaha jesus I just said that). I can see that that's a good place to tease the audience, so that's my personal taste. Aside from that, I would say your backgrounds continue to be the biggest challenge for you, as you use the line tool to get the fastest results for them, which makes your BGs suffer. Keep working on those on your spare time I'd say.

Overall nice job from both of you.

      Edited Jun 29 2015,  11:10 AM by Cracking Skulls

Astro Sean
Think Tank
# 17   Posted: Jun 29 2015, 10:28 AM
God damn tumblr..

My only crit was there should of been slightly more dong.

# 16   Posted: Jun 29 2015, 10:22 AM
Agreed natche. Story is story, consentual or not. Getting triggered is a part of life.
Enjoyed the comics! Not a lot of backgrounds on elges half.still solid. Cant wait to see what happens
storywise with child joey. Lots of immediate sex in the miller comic. Took me aback at first so i could read on. I like the way
you draw joey, pyras. Very natural and in character.

# 15   Posted: Jun 29 2015, 08:58 AM
I came and read the comics, thought they were both fairly funny and enjoyable and then I read the comments.

What was bunch of bullshit wank festing. Jesus christ. You both used tried and true tropes and they were fine. These are comics, they're /stories/ they are Not. Real. Complicating fiction with 'political correctness' is a dark path that borders on thought police territory.

If everything was portrayed in perfectly PC I would hang myself tomorrow because entertainment would be dead.

There were no rapey vibes from either of these, god damn. Go read some fucking yaoi and come back and talk about non-consensual. People get drunk and make stupid decisions all the time sex included. I imagine getting pumped full of lust and having sex is not particularly different.

A lot of people on this site need to get over themselves or take the tumblr IV outta their bloodstreams, jesus.

# 14   Posted: Jun 29 2015, 08:10 AM
Without repeating too much what others have said I'm just gonna say that I second (third? fourth?) the comments of Hiemie/Rofl/Hats. You both have questionable set ups for the sex scenes and I think a little more thought in future about what the implications of drunk sex/"magically" boosted lust levels/whatever actually MEANS in real world terms. Both imply non-consensual to me, which of course has been tackled in comics on here before, but in these two particular comics it's quite made light of. Which of course could be because neither of you realised that's how it would come across to readers, but that's why I'm telling you to be a little more thoughtful if you ever go down the "smut" route again.

Pyras - I really like all the action, your expressions and poses particularly impressed me! Joey's naked rampage really did make me laugh, but agree with what others have said that there could have been an extra page to establish the context and setting to really ease any confusion. Liking your use of blacks as well, really gives the comic a lot of visual interest.

The main thing I would say is to keep an eye on your proportions. There are a few places where Joey's neck is really huge (e.g. page 2 and page 7) and some other parts where I think you've tried for some perspective on him but it's resulted in him looking tiny compared to other characters (page 5)

Elge - I see the page order has been fixed! It threw me off a little at first but mistakes happen and I managed to figure it out regardless :) Good job on getting a finished comic in, I know you were struggling so kudos on getting it done! The character interactions in this were pretty good, and the hot sauce gag made me laugh. Typical Joey!

It's good to see some more backgrounds from you, they're very tough to do I know but the more you do them the easier it will get. Your backgrounds are still looking quite sparse though, which is a shame because you clearly spend a lot of time on your characters and the imbalance between the two is quite striking. A good suggestion for building a background is to collect a load of photos into a document to use as reference and pick and choose parts of each. The more reference you collect the more you have to dip into when it comes to building a scene.

I'd also like to see you push your blacks more on your environments as well as your characters as that would anchor the characters more in the scene. Also, you use a lot of vertical and horizontal lines in your backgrounds, which give quite a 2D effect and also can lead to the "fake panel" tangent (where lines that are meant to be part of the background give an unwanted effect of looking like a panel border - examples of this would be on page 3 and page 6) working on your perspective and using more angles would really help you with that I feel.

# 13   Posted: Jun 28 2015, 06:17 PM
This is why porn without story is better

# 12   Posted: Jun 28 2015, 06:00 PM
Okay you two, I'm not going to discuss in much detail the questionable sex?/rape?/whatever? in my crits since it's already being covered by others (but I stand with Hiemie and roflqu on this one)

Pyras: Sometimes it's harder for me to spot the 'grey areas' in your plots because I already know Miller really well so usually know where you're coming from; shorter battles often benefit from starting straight into the action but it appears that an extra page at the start to how they got into bed together may have benefited you - or maybe if it was shown later on in the comic since I know you wanted the "what's going on here?" Vibe for your establishing page.

Speaking of establishing, there's no establishing shot for where they actually are in the beginning scene. Everything is quite close up or mid range. The reader ASSUMES they're in a bedroom of course but that isn't confirmed until the 4th page.

I think your expressions in this battle are superb, I especially love Joey's expressions throughout the entire comic. I can't complain on your anatomy either, it's getting really strong, but as ways everything could benefit with a bit more line width variation because your panels can often suffer from looking a bit flat unless you're using heavy blacks to bring characters forward.

What i would like to see you work on is your dialogue, you need to break it up. No one likes to see a massive balloon of text, people are going to just skim it and may lose out on vital information by doing so. This comic isn't particularly bad for it since it's more action and monologuing but big walls of dialogue are pretty consistent throughout your comics, an example in this battle however is the first panel in page 4. It's just far to big and off-putting, break up it into smaller balloons or more panels if you have to.

Elge: This is definitely one of your strongest comics I've seen from you for a while so be proud. The muddled up pages through me off a little here and there but that's an uploading problem and it happens to the best of us.

It's good to see you including background characters to fill out the atmosphere, but your backgrounds still feel quite empty - in the first panel of page 2 other then the people the place is completely empty. I know it's a bar but it just looks like a bar made out of boxes and lacks it's own 'character' - which is a shame because your first panel in page 1 does have that.

Your lines are definitely getting tighter but you still need to push your anatomy skills, everyone looks quite young (I mean everyone on void seems to be in their 20s but you wouldn't be able to tell Lilyfeather and Miller have about 10 years between them, for example) id also like to see more effort in what the characters actually wear. More little details like that can really help brighten a comic, for example Lily in page 5 - you could easily just even make a simple pattern on her dress, an eccentric and flamboyant character like Lily probably wouldn't wear something as bland, how a person dresses can really portray a characters personality.

Your shots are usually quite face on and makes them a little bit too 2-dimensional at times (like in page 7 for the first 2 panels,) once you feel a bit more confident try doing some more interesting angled shots.

And then it's by page 11 I get totally thrown off coz at first I thought it was Miller complaining about having a hot-sauce covered penis thrusted into his anus but once I read more of the dialogue on the page I realised it couldn't be and it just left me more confused, I'm sure it's just something you're going to go into at a later date (and I look forward to it).

Also babba Joey is hella cute.


Global Moderator
# 11   Posted: Jun 28 2015, 03:34 PM
oh man. so many wangs. just, everywhere XD
First off to both, two things- one, thanks for the Lilyfeather cameos, LOL! my cameo folder on my desktop has gotten much dirtier now! Two, kudos to everyone for having the guts to draw and post straight-up porn in public, I don't know if I could do it! You guys didn't hold back and just went for it and thats awesome I think. So I commend your courage.
Everyone worked some plot in with their porn too, Im kind of surprised and a little impressed lol. And then we went two entirely different routes.

Pyras! Hot damn that first page though lol. very nice! After that I can understand how some people got confused about how the situation came about, it does get a bit muddled. I think i understand your intention- Joey initiated sex while drunk and i can only imagine Miller shrugged and said "why not", I mean he is a lust demon? so sex is kind of his deal? But having Joey wake up part way through I guess puts the whole thing in kind of a gray area. idk i guess i read it like a "they had sex and then" fanfic trope but I can see how it could be read otherwise. Sorry your intent didn't come out so clear- maybe next time you don't write in the bit with alcohol lol. As for the rest, i thought Joey's rampage was funny, and I liked him confessing that hes been struggling with what he is and who he wants to be. I think Miller maybe went a little too out of his way to help him after that punch to the face (also hilarious) but I can see him preferring to have Joey as an ally rather than an enemy- Lily triangle notwithstanding lol. My biggest problem with the comic is actually more that we didnt see much of Miller- i mean we SAW him but nothing really changed with him, I dunno if Im getting across what Im trying to say but it felt like he was just sort of there lol. So i guess next comic I'd like to know whats going on in his mind a little more.

sugha! you went a different route and went a little darker, but then it stops at a cliffhanger! i hope you draw the rest, I want to know whats going on! I like how you draw Miller's physic powers on page 13. I also really like both Joey's and Miller's expressions on page 4 lol. I think I disagree with Hiemie that Joey uses his powers like a date rape drug because Miller is still in control of his faculties, I think its more like an aphrodisiac but idk there was magic in one and liquor in another, either way these two cant just seem to just fall into bed without someone having to take a shot and go "alright lets do this" first lol. You guys picked characters for a smut battle that dont particularly care for each other so everyone had a tough time figuring out how this was going to go down! ^^; In any case it looks like youre delving into some deep waters with Joey so I hope you continue. i'd like to see more of Joey's struggle with being a demon whose fighting his nature. like maybe he doesnt like using his powers cuz it feels manipulative but then he did for Miller cuz Miller just pisses him off so much so now how does he feel about that later? You have potential here for  real nice drama and I'd like to see it unfold! And oh yeah- the sex scene was very hot XD good job lol!

      Edited Jun 28 2015,  03:38 PM by Shen

E.W. Schneider
# 10   Posted: Jun 28 2015, 03:30 PM
Critique later when I am not my phone, but Hiemie accurately described the double standard taking place here. If it wasn't coated in "magic", you're  just as guilty of what you claim Pyras did, elge.  

Community Manager
# 9   Posted: Jun 28 2015, 02:00 PM
Momoless: I'm really sorry how the beginning of my comic made you feel. I didn't see any possible rape implications at all while I was writing the comic. I got the idea from various sitcoms when they do the trope story of two people sleeping together who normally wouldn't, and one of them in particular is stressed about it. Alcohol is often a part of these gags. It's such an old gag, I never considered the rape implications of it and for that I am sorry. Since I made it that Ledai, not Miller, was the initiator, and didn't pass out or was taken advantage of, that's probably part of why I didn't think of it.

sugha: There's more story that I was wondering about adding to this comic, and ultimately decided to scrap it since I felt it'd be too much talking over gags; Amber and Joey were going to have a conversation that would reveal Joey's rivalry was actually denial of attraction. Since I personally was already aware of this I guess I felt that some subtle element of it was still present in the comic when it wasn't. So it seems I misread that and didn't drive that point home more clearly.

minteh: Miller actually doesn't dislike Joey that much, he doesn't say such in the comic. But I'm sorry that it wasn't clear enough to pick up. I wanted the smut to be little more than the setup for the actual comedy adventure but it seems to have raised more questions than it was meant to.

Sorry for all the mixed messages this comic seems to be giving out, everyone

      Edited Jun 28 2015,  04:05 PM by PyrasTerran

# 8   Posted: Jun 28 2015, 12:52 PM
Isn't.... isn't "Raising someone's lust level magically" like slipping a drug in their drink to make them horny and fuck you...

There's a word for that, isn't there?

# 7   Posted: Jun 28 2015, 10:00 AM

I'm more than a little confused as to how the sex starts here, comments below aside I feel like it could have and should have been done better.  Everything after the sex is entertaining, but I can't get a good idea of who Miller is and how he thinks because he's suddenly agreeing to sex with someone that (as far as I understand) he greatly dislikes while they're blackout drunk, and then offers pick-up advice at the end (while also vehemently denying the opportunity for more sex).  I feel pages 5-8 are really strong, and the writing in pages 1-4 is where the ball was dropped, I think.


Pages being out of order aside, there was a good flow from introduction to actual sex.  I'll be honest and say I was expecting more smut from your side and less story which I can't figure out if that's good or bad haha.  It'll be interesting to see what comes next for Joey and learn a little more about him.

# 6   Posted: Jun 28 2015, 09:38 AM
So hey, Pyras.
I dont want to like you know, belittle your comic. Because I at least struggled a lot to get it done, I mean you already know that. I was whining at you on Skype often.
And since you were the one to use the extension, I can only assume you had your share of hard times too with it. Because like, the art is really nice, the lines are clean, theres cool looking backgrounds, and I was laughing with the interaction of Joey with the other characters, especially with Dropkick. That made me chuckle. Also his dick flailing about. Thats also always funny.

But I also feel I should You know, make a small comment on the whole sex scene.

Joey was drunk.

Even when he sobers up hes conflicted as to why hes having sex with Miller in the first place.

And, I know you said this is the first time youve drawn adult content, or at least male on male adult content, so I can only assume you were not sure what you were doing with this.
And I am not saying this to be a needlessly dick to you. Im just saying because Ive sort of been there. You know?
I am sure you all guys remember how I messed up on Kitchen Trouble. And it was exactly because I didnt know what I was doing.

So yeah, sorry for being a crybaby.
Your comic is great, I enjoyed it. It was just the sex scene that I couldnt enjoy much because of the context. I'm really sorry. :(
The fact that you and I had sort of similar ideas where Miller and Joey/Lesdai could end up being friends was really refreshing. But I am sort of a fucking idiot and could not finish all my battle. There's hoping I get the time to do the rest as a Beyond Battle and harden their friendship a bit on my side.

      Edited Jun 28 2015,  09:44 AM by Dechado

# 5   Posted: Jun 28 2015, 09:32 AM
I am sorry to say this, but the beginning of Pyras' comic makes me very unconfortable.
Joey is clearly drunk, so drunk he isn't even sure how he ended up in this situation with a person he sees as a rival. Consent under such circumstances isn't consent, but rape....

# 4   Posted: Jun 27 2015, 09:23 PM
A'ight. Uploaded.

A little bit of Rape Trigger on Page 11. There's nothing showing. but the text tells a story. So, just a small warning when getting there.


I must have messed up the upload order. It was pretty late, so sorry about that.
Page 2 should be 6, and Page 6 should be 2.

My apologies.

      Edited Jun 28 2015,  08:03 AM by Dechado

Approval Committee
# 3   Posted: Jun 12 2015, 08:41 AM
So help me, this better be mind blowingly obscene and salacious, OR ELSE. >=[

Global Moderator
# 2   Posted: Jun 7 2015, 11:55 AM

edit: i drew a Lilyfeather reaction image lol

      Edited Jun 7 2015,  01:20 PM by Shen

# 1   Posted: Jun 7 2015, 11:51 AM
Ah shit...

Comic Details -

Drawing Time: 2 weeks
Ended: Jul 4th, 2015
Votes Cast: 21
Page Views: 1788
Winner: PyrasTerran


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