Elle vs. The Emberhearts'

Elle vs. The Emberhearts'

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Icon for Elle46%
428 points
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This comic has not been rated; viewer discretion advised.

Icon for The Emberhearts'54%
502 points
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Critiques & Comments
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Coatl
Artist
320 comments
# 20   Posted: Jan 21 2016, 10:49 PM
 Albino
I agree with Kura with the text but you know what, Alan Moore can pull something like this off, so I say it they could push the composition of the page as whole and make the string of text more interesting
homestuck pulls it off well too but their advantage is that they have a text window seperately
or like I woulda offered the show don't tell as well by having the parts where everyone is talking in a set of panels and organize the teams  so that the order of who's talking follows the a squad the b squad ect.
like do a long panel with the teams responding and the team leader's reaction and that would serve the same purpose of giving that humorous contrast of the team's aloofness through the facial expressions as well as their quotes against the leader's reaction.
you can make it work, there's ways to do it. all it really needed was some extra drawings

Thresher
Artist
166 comments
# 19   Posted: Mar 22 2013, 11:01 AM
Heyhey guys! We talked about your comic on Void On Air! You can find that here: http://entervoid.com/index.php?topic=12182.msg219065#msg219065

Kozispoon
Artist
1211 comments
# 18   Posted: Mar 15 2013, 02:51 PM
TDK- oooh yikes! Looks like that dreaded deadline hit you before you could really polish this comic. I'm sorry to see the sections you X'ed in black never got colored black. I think if they had your inkwork would've been given that extra oomph. As it stands it all looks very uniform and flat which makes me sad. Seeing as I don't think I've seen anything of the Emberhearts, it was amusing to read a mom and daughter going through something as usual as a shopping trip. The 'you'll make mommy' fat line on page 2 totally made me giggle. I especially loved that Hiemie's Ham cereal was just established as a thing. Like, duh! EVERYBODY knows the jingle to that song. I totally went with it as I read on, and even found myself humming the lyrics. Now I really wanna know what it sounds like!

It was great to see the world this comic was working in expanded on. These opponents weren't battling in 'space' so to speak but in void city with cereal jingles and robot police who have witch side kicks. Really lighthearted and fun read.

ALBINO TURTLE- DAT COVER PAGE. I love what you did with the glow of light on all the visors. Really gave a creepy and foreboding feel once you head on into reading. I think I'll be echoing most of the comments you got about the big black voids of black that was used to attempt some form of pacing in your comic. I'll admit in the barest sense they did the job- I felt like time elapsed on the first page as I went from panel to panel, but there are definitely better ways to go about it. You got some fabulous suggestions already so I wont harp on it. I will say your SFX for the elevator opening on page three totally works. I don't think I'd have any idea on how an elevator would sound but I think you nailed it. It may very well be the next 'Snkt!'

I think from the moment the elevator opens all the way is when this comic hits the ground as a jog, drawing you in. The use of colors on each void fighter to distinguish them as recognizable was a really great idea. I immediately knew who was who when I saw the red bandanna or turquoise stars. I also reflexively saw the gray figure amidst all the blue and went 'Huh that guy looks kinda like Mimi..." then did a  total doubletake. XD LOVE LOVE that despite the environment and characters in a certain color palate, Mimi was still sticking out like a sore monochrome thumb.

I will say your backgrounds left me wanting as they seemed rather simplistic (then again after the fact you find out its  videogame, so maybe it was a low rez shooter? lol), but I think you compensated with your use of color. I think that really shines on the last panel of page 4. Those glasses in the extreme foreground giving a peek at the doom to come was really awesome. I really enjoyed how you managed to make all the characters who were talking but not onscreen recognizable by their 'icons', and I got a real laugh out of the discussion over poor Tsumi's 'Dumbbell' handle. The progression of expressions on Elle's face was priceless.

I will say the way you handled page 10 and that big reveal was awesome. That boot was marvelous darling, marvelous! I also liked that you couldn't really tell who was who anymore- all those recognizable markers we saw in the opening were gone. I think it really drove home that 'they're all just piles of dead meat'. An entertaining and unexpected battle to say the least. Nice work!

Gregly
Artist
201 comments
# 17   Posted: Mar 14 2013, 08:54 AM
tdk: I always like the way just your black and white comics look--i wish you had had time to fill in all the blacks you planned. This comic is super cute though and Gwen and Regi were in it so...

turtle: I was a little confused about who was who when I first read through but I got it the second time! Your limited use of color and the highlights worked really well but when it turned out to all be a video game I was like "oh." BUT I hope you hang around and make more comics!

EyeAmPhibian
Artist
97 comments
# 16   Posted: Mar 14 2013, 03:08 AM
TFK:
I noticed that most of your panels addressed the characters from a very straight on perspective. To me it just accumulates to give the comic a flatness. When you do show them in a different way, like the last 2 panels on page 3, it really pops.
The handwritten elements weren't as clear as they could be, but I commend the fact that you are doing the lettering yourself, and at this point, as I'm no expert myself at it, I'd jut sugest taking more time over it, and maybe using some tracing paper to try the type a few times before settling on what works best size and spacing wise.
The story was cute, and had some nice characterisation. I would say that the whole fire explosion thing all happened a bit too quickly. Just because something like an explosion happens quickly, doesn't mean you have to show it in a short amount of panels. Sometimes, moments that are particularly memorable and action packed have much more intricacies and are that much more detailed and layered for you as a person. I think a giant fire explosion would be one of these moments, so you can afford to layer it up a bit. The shocked looks of other shoppers faces, shelves and foods melting away, windows shattering, more emotions on the main characters faces. Hopefully you get the idea. The zoom out above the shop was good though.

Turtle:
I quite liked the format. I much prefer having to scroll through a comic than having to wait for 10+ seconds for a new page to load on a really frequent basis so that I completely lose the flow of a story. I do think you could shorten those black gaps a bit though.
The limited colour pallette and use of shadows and highlights worked really well for me, gave it a nice atmosphere.
Page 6, using little icons for which character is talking, I don't think all of them were iconic enough for that character, using small little faces would have been clearer, but then I guess you wanted avoid showing their facial expressions as they are somwehere else? But, that might have been quite good actually, howls of agony accompanied by a litle pic of Tsumi gouging her own eyes out for example.
Taste wise, I always find the, 'it was all a dream', aka, it was just a video game, a bit of a rip off emotionally. It just feels like, why take me through a whole story where I get emotionally a attached to characters losses and tribulations when it didn't really mean that much. You could make an interesting play on this, like how I am in fact only reading a comic anyway, so why should I be invested in drawings etcetc, but maybe thats going too far... I'll shut up now.

Red
Council
703 comments
# 15   Posted: Mar 13 2013, 11:16 AM
TDK: It's a shame you didn't get to polish this more ... your work has gotten so much stronger! If you were able to include the black areas where you intended them to be, it wouldn't have looked so empty. I appreciate that you're giving backgrounds a good effort in parts, but you've still got a lot of missing ones! Sometimes they look fine, but then it gets sloppy. I'd like to see you make shorter comics that you can really spend your time on in the future. The story was pretty cute!!

Turtle: It makes me sad when I see a super nice cover page and the comic itself has some sloppy parts in it. Leave the cover until the end, sometimes having a cover page is just a luxury you can't afford time-wise. Apparently, you're using some weird format that people hate (lol?) I am not aware of this, so that aspect was new to me. Not sure how I feel about it... it was interesting! Most of the other points have been brought up already ... the word bubbles were HUGE! There were some really nicely polished parts of this comic that were really impressive!  Like the bottom of page 4... WHOA! Loved the colors through this whole thing. I loved the ending, I didn't see that coming ... I was like "why does Mimi have a gun? what is happening?!" Hahaha.

galvo
Artist
146 comments
# 14   Posted: Mar 8 2013, 03:59 PM
incidentally - really enjoyed the snapshot where she walks in to find all those dead bodies ... that boot in the extreme foreground was a lovely touch.

galvo
Artist
146 comments
# 13   Posted: Mar 8 2013, 03:58 PM
The BenT One: Turtle: Please, for the love of god, do not use that new page layout style that is popping up in manga. It's boring, has no flow, and takes up way too much space. I'm not dissing you as an artist, I'm dissing that style of layout.
Quote

i agree-
increasingly annoying.
i get what you're going for, hitting the page down button was about as effective as hitting the -> key to go to the next page --

kudos for trying something new, but half the time i spent lining up the page so i could read what was going on, and at what point i was supposed to be reading it. confusing.

also- the incredibly large word bubbles and equally large lettering,
might be nice if i was on a cellphone...
wait a minute.... this is for cellphones isn't it.... i see now.


Pennydox
Artist
235 comments
# 12   Posted: Mar 8 2013, 11:06 AM
tdk: I think your linework is getting cleaner. I think it's time you experiment with some other stuff, like loosening up with your linework, or shading, or using a smaller/thicker pen. I just realized what those 'x' marks were for, and next time if you want a quick black, just use a paintbrush + black ink, and if you want something faster than that, get a brush pen-filling simple black spots like that usually just take a minute or two on each page. I think by now you can concentrate/emphasize on one or more of the following: line weight (doing it in multiple layers for depth instead of just one thick one in front and one in back), Solid black shapes (to define depth...think Mike Mignola, but just plain black and white imagery), hatching/shading with pens (as something new to experiment with). Time to pump up to the next level!

Albino: Yea I don't like the layout style either, but it's more that it take a while to load on my computer. Pacing makes sense, but because the beautiful images are so large, so is the text, and that can get pretty annoying. Usually that format/layout comes with music and stuff too, and you can't really implant that in void, I think. Love the colors and their expressions though.

William_Duel
Community Manager
943 comments
# 11   Posted: Mar 8 2013, 09:31 AM
TDK: Looking back at your old work, I am glad to say that you are always growing and I believe this to be your most expressive comic to date.  As time goes on, you're better able to reach a new level of complexity but be wary because when you fail to use the blacks, it leaves the work feeling empty despite the level of complexity because none of your work has any weight to it and by weight I mean shading, blacks, line weight, etc.  It's good to see you try more complex establishing shots like the one on page one.  Your figures are still a little stiff and their construction still needs more polish especially the necks.  They are often too slender and often enough the heads aren't mounted correctly.  Page 4 has some particularly egregious examples.  You seem to have the opposite problem of many 'anime/manga' based artists in that your heads seem too small rather than too big.  And when you connect them to the head there is that common problem where you connect the neck either before the ear or too far back to the head.  So please continue to practice and improve that underlying structure.  And here's something I would really like to see you work with are the faces.  Since your time on Void, your faces haven't changed much except to become a bit more expressive which I think is great.  But your faces are often little more than emoticons or as a friend of mine would say, they're 'shorthand' for real faces.  I'm not telling you to go real but you're far too comfortable with faces that are little more than placeholders for the features.  I'm not fond of the little triangle you use for noses and while most moe anime gets crap for this, even the worst offenders will have more balance to the face, even if the nose is just a dot.  The tradeoff for those is that at least the eyes have detail in order to convey emotion stylistically as opposed to the highly simplified nose and mouth.  Here, I'll give you an example:
Here's an example of a slightly more 'realistic' but highly simple anime face in which the nostrils alone represented the entirety of the nose:
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTF0Ye2XEY1bHz961kHh-GLS0j-5mcay0mANVxY_xQZx4ZosG31

Now in my opinion, I think you are better off emulating someone like Tsutomu Nihei, who has never been great at faces but whose simplified style works just fine in contrast to the details of.....everything else.


Pleague: I definitely see that you're using the panel layout that is popular with Korean Webtoons, and I don't fault that as a bad thing as I think it is good to experiment with layout.  But there are things here about your presentation that could have been better developed.  While the point of that layout is to present things in a more animated flow using browsers, there are certain things that stand out.  The elevator scene was not my favorite because it highlighted how sterile the scene is.  You've got a dull elevator which could have used some shine or other defining details which is defined by linetool.  This is severely contrasted by the sketchiness of the banners which are also badly drawn.  The thing that stands out are the columns behind the banners because while it's just scribbled greys it at least gives some semblance of texture.  

Something that is a problem with digital coloring is that you have to be aware that the colors you use on your screen may not be the same for all screens.  I found the comic too dark as a whole with the black gutters versus the dark blues of the scenes.  I'm not sure if substituting the black for another color would have helped but my feelings are that you should have used lighter coloring for the panels.  The font doesn't work for me especially in contrast to the sketchy linework.  And like Kura as pointed out, the sudden clutter of text made the comic unappealing halfway through.  Though your colors and linework in the last few pages are a great improvement, I can only assume you worked backwards and the errors at the start are a result of rushing.  

Page 4 though does stand out as my favorite because of the compositions and the great perspective in the last panel.  The reflection in the glasses was a great moment of suspense.  I like the variety of faces and poses you display, there's a very animated quality to your characters that works out great.  The characters had a lot of personality and Mimi the Mime in particular was well portrayed.  The cameos were ambitious but did well to display your ability to depict a wide range of people and emotion.  

Majikura
Artist
469 comments
# 10   Posted: Mar 8 2013, 08:30 AM
Tdk: Pretty solid and enjoyable story. No complaints there.  I miss the solid blacks in your work.

Pleague: i really like that slow pace you established with the large panels and the scrolling down, but i was put off by the huge amounts of text in the middle of the comic
> that was like the complete opposite of "show don't tell"
> i feel it would have been a stronger entry if you had elle's team lose contact with the other teams early then keep building the suspense as she discovers the fates of the other teams while slowly losing members of her own instead of having all the development happen through the radio.
> something else that would probabbly help: text really doesnt need to be that big.

The Bent One
Artist
564 comments
# 9   Posted: Mar 8 2013, 08:26 AM
Turtle: Please, for the love of god, do not use that new page layout style that is popping up in manga. It's boring, has no flow, and takes up way too much space. I'm not dissing you as an artist, I'm dissing that style of layout. Your art was good, and I applaud you for using color (so many people don't have the time to). But avoid using that super stretched out vertical layout. It is bad.

TDK: BACKGROUNDS! I needs me some more backgrounds!

Fred
Artist
550 comments
# 8   Posted: Mar 8 2013, 08:22 AM
Hiemie's hams, so hammy and healthy hmm hmm hmm!
Now I've got the stupid jingle stuck in my head!

I really enjoyed both of these.
Tdk, I wish you could have done more, both in detail, because this is a lot of empty, and in the interaction between Elle and the little Emberheart. It started really cute, but got cut off too short.

Turtle, I didn't like the format you're using, at first, but then it all makes sense when they start getting killed off. Very ingenius how it translates the confusion and suspense of the situation and the invisible enemy! I think maybe make the panels in the first page or two closer to each other, at least, so that we know there's something to go down to look at; I totally skipped most of the two first pages before thinking "hey, maybe there's something down there". You can get away with the space after, because we're used to it, but not when you're introducing the format.

Albino Turtle
Artist
21 comments
# 7   Posted: Mar 8 2013, 06:25 AM
OHMIGARSH! TDK WHY YOU MAKE THEM SO CUTE?????????
I absolutely love it >:3
How you  portray them is spot on!!
I gives you one internetz hug!

Ten Dead Kings
Artist
269 comments
# 6   Posted: Mar 7 2013, 09:11 PM
Uploaded with 75% completion.

I was belatedly reminded of a test scheduled later today so I had to study but then it got postponed today so FEELINGS.

Julz
Artist
411 comments
# 5   Posted: Mar 7 2013, 02:05 PM
You still have 8 hours if you wanted to clean it up. You can do it!!!!

Albino Turtle
Artist
21 comments
# 4   Posted: Mar 7 2013, 09:32 AM
I'm finally done! expect rushed piece of crap work that makes no complete sence whatsoever from me everyone :c

Con
Artist
92 comments
# 3   Posted: Feb 27 2013, 10:07 PM
Gogogo!

Julz
Artist
411 comments
# 2   Posted: Feb 25 2013, 02:32 PM
dfbjhfvbjkfvbjk omg looking forward to it!!!!

Ten Dead Kings
Artist
269 comments
# 1   Posted: Feb 14 2013, 05:04 AM
Nothing could possibly go wrong.

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