[Elio]

Hello! I’m professor Elio, and I bid you welcome to the VCU Library! Here at the Library, VCU students and professors are welcomed to post links and talk about their favorite books magazines and other publications. As you already may know I’m a big pusher for drawing till your fingers fall off, but while its true you can’t do that all the time, the other half should be spent educating yourself on art (or in VCU case, it’s comics.) The best thing you can do is read up all you can and expand your knowledge!

I encourage everyone to post links and reviews to any books they want to share! Anything you feel that others would love to read! Art books, Graphic Novels, Art Theory, Art History, Comics you enjoy, Artist Biographies, How – Tos, Psychology, Literature, and even books you made yourself! Etc, etc, etc.

Let’s educate each other and expand our minds!   

I’ll start off!



I absolutely, 100% recommend EVERYONE on VOID to read this book.
It’s amazing what Scott covers in this book! I was going to write a tasty review, but I found out the pre-face written by Scott McCloud inside of this book says it all!   

“Visit any bookstore and you’ll find tons of how-to-draw books on the shelves aimed at comic artist. Flip through them and you’ll see step-by-step instructions on drawing manga schoolgirl outfits, superhero muscles and strip gags. Theses are the books that tell you what they all assume you want to know, how to draw like your favorite artist, and they’re pretty good at it. But there’s something they’re not telling you. In fact, there’s a whole book’s worth of secrets they’re leaving out.

If you’ve ever felt there must be something more to making comics than just copying drawing styles, then this is the book for you.

In these pages, I’ve done my best to cover the storytelling secrets I don’t see any other books talking about, the ideas every comics artist needs to tackle before they even pick up a pen including:

•   Choosing the right moments to make into panels; what to include, what to leave out.
•   Framing actions and guiding the reader’s eyes.
•   Choosing words and images that communicate together.
•   Creating varied and compelling characters with inner lives and unforgettable appearances.
•   Understanding body language and facial expressions.
•   Creating rich, believable worlds for your readers to explore.
•   Picking the tools that are right for you, and understanding how those tools evolved.
•   Navigating the vast world of comics styles and genres.

The comic industry is changing fast. Old formats die and new ones are born. Whole industries come and go. But these storytelling principles always apply. They mattered fifty year ago and they’ll matter fifty years from now.

Wheter you want to draw graphic novels, superheros, manga-style, comic strips or webcomics, you’r going to be putting one picture after another to tell a story."

-Scott McCloud

This is a great read! Especially if you make comics, there’s no way you can turn this title down. Its an ivy leauge comic making class in a convenient book.  I've found it very helpful in my own work and recommend everyone get your hands on a copy if your interested in reading what makes great comics and how to make them!

Amazon.com link:
http://www.amazon.com/Making-Comics-Storytelling-Secrets-Graphic/dp/0060780940/sr=8-1/qid=116113380[size=10pt][/size]3/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-9247866-1896053?ie=UTF8

[Wei Ingnan]

we've talked about it a couple of times on the site....but's really quite good

Draw! Magazine
http://www.drawmagazine.com/

Draw! is the professional "How-To" magazine on cartooning and animation. Each issue features in-depth interviews and step-by-step demonstrations from top comics professionals.


it's just a good all around magazine for comic book artists....4 issues a year




Panel Discussions.....not as good as Elio's suggestion...but still valuable

The struggle to tell a comics story visually requires more than a cool-looking image; it takes years of experience and a thorough understanding of the art form's visual vocabulary. Assembled in PANEL DISCUSSIONS is the combined knowledge of more than a dozen of the industry's top storytellers, covering all aspects of the design of comics, from pacing, story flow, and word balloon placement, to using color to convey emotion, spotting blacks, and how gutters between panels affect the story! Learn from the best, as WILL EISNER, SCOTT HAMPTON, MIKE WIERINGO, WALTER SIMONSON, MIKE MIGNOLA, MARK SCHULTZ, DAVID MAZZUCCHELLI, DICK GIORDANO, BRIAN STELFREEZE, MIKE CARLIN, CHRIS MOELLER, MARK CHIARELLO and others share hard-learned lessons about the DESIGN of comics, complete with hundreds of illustrated examples. When should you tilt or overlap a panel? How can sound effects enhance the story, and when do they distract from it? What are the best ways to divide up the page to convey motion, time, action, or quiet? If you're serious about creating effective, innovative comics, or just enjoying them from the creator's perspective, this in-depth guide is must-reading!


it's basically interviews with a number of comic book types talking about themselves, thier art and how, why and what they do.....with a focus on the nitty gritty of the work

[James]

elio.... you know how much i love you..... so, so, so, so much.... this is why this will be the hardest post ive ever had to write.



scott mcloud is a fucking peice of shit. im sorry. im so sorry baby. but it's true. let me explain my point of view....

can you off the top of your head name a comic that scott mcloud has done, besides a book about making comics? if you can, that's amazing, and chances are you're probably thinking of zot. now zot was ALRIGHT i guess, but on the whole it was really nothing special at all. i just cant see how someone can write a series of tell-all book about how youre supposed to draw comics when you've never drawn a good one in your entire life. that's like justin timberlake writing a book on how to survive a stint in prison, it might have some general good ideas in it, but it cant be taken for serious.

im sorry to have to do this to everyone, but look at what this mutherfucker unleashed onto the world....




this abe licoln arbortion is just the tip of the iceberg. i could go on and on (and on and on and on) about why scott mcloud should never again make comix babies, but that page just about summed everything up for me.


anyways, great thread idea! i recommend to anyone (who can actually find it) ZOONIVERSE by fil barlow (from the now extinct ECLIPSE COMICS Â line). it is hands down, one of the best books ever, from writing to art, to layouts, energy etc etc.


sorry, thats the best image i could find on google



I LOVE YOU ALWAYS ELIO

[Wei Ingnan]

you can buy the comics fer cheap here
http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=list&title=99918875122&snumber=1

and here's another page scan


I can attest to Spike's rave review...i still remember this as being intensely creative and at the time unlike anything I had ever seen...I still have issues 4 and 5....

[Berlin Poe]

That white house...it's not REALLY the white house, is it...it's like...a 3d modeled White House huh?...

Wow...

Why didn't he just use a picture of the white house? I mean...since the background and charcters where never, ever going to look like they were drawn together....

Erm...anyway...Zooniverse looks cool. I'd love to read it...with...you know...not having to buy it.

[Phill]

Sorry Elio, but after seeing that comic page, I want absolutely nothing to do with Scott McCloud! Aside from those prerendered backgrounds, his anatomy stinks! Look at the white girl's running pose and arms dude, those are chicken wings!

Anywho, now that I read through most of my comics, I remember liking the old DareDevil comics (granted most of my collection got completely trashed including a rare comic), it was pretty well done and well written. Long before that B Grade movie brought him back with Ben Afflec... or however his last name is spelled. I lost most of the pages however, and it was durring 1991 when comics were being killed by Rob Liefield. Luckly he wasn't anywhere near DareDevil or Spiderman durring that time!

[A Bad Idea]

I view McCloud's books as food for thoughts, just things to think about. They shouldn't be your Comix Arts Bible, and truthfully, nothing should. But McCloud brings up some good things to think about, but NOT to commit to.

Anyways, here's some books on writing that I learned from through my storytelling class:


The Hero with 1,000 Faces, by Joseph Campbell[/url]
This book outlines how to analyze and construct characters, understand their purpose and take a general look into the tried-and-true story structure called "The Hero's Journey", which teaches you that while every story in the world has been told, there are countless ways to retell them.


The Art of Creative Writing, by Lajos Egri
This book takes a look into writing for scripts and screenplays, and also does its part to teach how stories are constructed. This is the very book in which the Tridimensional Character sheet was derived, and also takes a look into creating worlds for your stories.

[KevJB]

Don't judge scott by his first attempt at digital art Phil. A lot of artists can improve over time.

Here is a scan from the book.


I'm reluctant to post this because spikes intimidates the hell out of me.

[Fetus Man]

I suggest tracking down "How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way". its perfect for budding comic artists and is always good to look back on when you need to

many new big named artists use this book, my favorite being Tony Moore, artist for Battle Pope, The Walking Dead, Fear Agent, BRIT and cover artist for all kinds of comics

[mr. robot]

james, i totally see where you're coming from, but mccloud certainly makes a lot of good points about the nature of comic art in his earlier books; i haven't read the new one though.

i will suggest BLANKETS by Craig Thompson. It is a really beautiful example of the figurative potential of comics; something that is being lost in most modern media. Pretty much it is one of the best comic books i have ever read, and i think you should all read it.


Jimmy Corrigan, the Smartest Kid on Earth, by Chris Ware, is also supergreat. Chris Ware is a brilliant draftsman and graphic designer, and you've probably seen a lot of his stuff without knowing it (he recently designed a cover for a new edition of Voltaire). Jimmy Corrigan is a great example of his fantastic storytelling skill... at times it's like watching a cartoon, and at other times it's like reading a very complex diagram. FUCKING GREAT.


these two books and their authors have taught me so much!

[jho]

BLANKETS. is awesome. yes I find the story is a bit too.. personal, but it is  very good, I didnt regret buying it and I'm quite picky. I also bought his travelling journal (carnet du voyage), and it's interesting, but again, he's very personal.

 I WAS GOING To buy that smartest boy on earth but was very unsure. I might consider it again now.


AND james, that page you showed to us is actually a comic that NOW scott himself hates to bits, and I think it's kinda unjustifiable to only show that old horrible comic while his new ones are much much better. But I'm not a big fan of scott myself, not because of the stories or artstyle, not at all, but just some of his opinions kinda rub me on the wrong way (long time ago when he still have a blog up in his site), but then I was young and I adore some of his comics (particularly the short, slice of life type ones he had up on his site way back, dunno if he still has them)




This might not be  everyone's cup of tea since the art is very minimalistic, simplistic and and relies on the slow pace, but I dunno, I find this really good, even though not so many dialogues in certain parts, it created some moods, either it's sad, anger, fear, etc. It's a story about Louis Riel and it was interesting how he slowly gone 'mad'.

I think the amazing thing is, some panels have almost exactly the same backgrounds, but apparently not really, since chester didn't  copy paste for the backgrounds, in other words,  his style is REALLY consistent.

[mr. robot]

edit-- it's Smartest KID on Earth, not smartest BOY.

I read a book by Chester Brown that was kind of an angsty teenage-romance story like Blankets, only not as well-executed. I think it's called "I Never Liked You." I'm on the fence about it. Plus I get him confused with Jeffrey Brown, who also does angst romance comics.
Louis Riel has intrigued me though, I will pick it up from the library next time I am there. Thanks!

I've only flipped through Louis Riel a bit in the past, but it brings up a whole issue I have with many comics coming out today, so I'm going to go off on a crazy tangent here that no one has to pay attention to. Seems like the vast majority of kids around my age doing comics, in the mainstream or not, are entirely video-game- and anime-fueled. everything is fast and bright and action-packed and attention-deficit. I am thinking particularly of Rey's stuff right now... Sharknife and stuff. I respect him and I like his comics and his storytelling, and I know it's completely out of line or whatever for me to talk about this, but... Seriously it's like getting your head pounded by a big action-mallet. And I guess this is a matter of opinion, but I really respect people who are deviating from this and trying to make meaningful stories with a less super-quick pace (i.e. chester brown). This is probably because I wasn't raised on video games as much as most people my age, but the attention deficit problem our culture is having seems really fucked up to me. anyway. maybe this isn't the right place for this kind of rant, sorry. but anyway, i'm going to make it a sort of goal of mine to make slow and effective comics.

[kure ji ori]

Mignola is a big one for me, his use of black blows me away and his panelling is excellent



a great guy to check out that you might not have heard of is tom gauld. He uses a very minimilist style with a great sense of pacing. He tells mundane stories with interesting people, like in his book Guardians of the Kingdom he has 2 nights on a giant wall guarding it. They play games and play tricks on eachother and loads of mundain random stuff but its great. heres a sample of his stuff

[James]

mr robot: no man! this is totally the right place for this... well kinda, we should just make a comic debate thread. MEANINGFUL COMIX DEBATE GO!


i read louis riel a couple months ago and it didnt really do all that much for me. chester brown is totally an excellent storyteller but there was nothing in the story that really got me all that interested. i guess im just not personally into straight forward politics in comix... still i recommend it to alot of people cus it IS a good book.

the thing with corey is that he IS his comics, living with him is like getting your head pounded by a big action-mallet. if you are able to read a persons comic before meeting them, and then they are exactly as you would imagine them to be, you at least know they are doing good personal comix. i do agree with you on this video game fixation lately, though i think its happening almost solely on the internet comics circuit than in the print... sharknife and scott pilgrim are the only ones that come to mind. while i think SP uses it as more of a fan-giggling gimmick, i think sharknife wears it more on its sleeve, smacks you in the face with it, then jackiechanthunderkicks you again while youre in the dirt... whether or not youre personally into those things is based solely on your own preferences. again though, youre right, it totally is just a generational thing, same as in the early 90's when every comic was about a long haired antihero in a trenchcoat.

well i guess i can just do nothing but AGREE with you mr robot sir, except i probably get more personal satisfaction out of straight up action comics than you do. damn you for being so infallible robot. damn you. when i get back to seattle ill make sure to send you coreys new short STAB KIDS, which i think youll enjoy infinitely more than sharknife. theres also this compilation book this one guy did that id think youd really like, except i cant remember the books name or the artists name for the life of me. i think it's NATE something? i will go google now.

[mr. robot]

cool man. let me say; i want to meet you sometime in person and have an epic, intense discussion/debate about all this stuff. what you're saying about a person's comics representing a person effectively or not is really getting me thinking. if people read rice boy, and then meet me, are they really satistfied by how much of a fucking weirdo i may or may not be?? but yeah i see what you're saying about living with corey/reading his comics; he's honest with his comics i guess.

i would like to see the stab kids thing. also i guess i should probably have bought your snack comix by now. oh gracious.

[Elio]

YES! Mr. Robot, This is exactly the kind of debate and talk I want here!!!!

If I can add my two cents as well on the matter, I believe James has it right where it seems more comics on the web that have the video game, anime influenced rather then print (except tokyopop, “manga”, etc)

I believe a big part of this trend is easily understood once you realize who is making these types of comics. From my point of view, it seems those who enjoy making these comics that are video game / anime obsessed are exactly that. They make comics about video games and anime because that’s what the artist is in too and where he gets his or hers “dynamic” or main influence. Often these artist are very engaged with what I call “forum culture”. They feel very comfortable posting and making art for the web and around others who share the same passion. Which in fact carries its own stigma. Its sad but true that you’ll find more “younger” artist posting for critics then you would more older artist with books. So naturally I believe the younger artist will produce more of this kind of video game, anime roled comics because that’s what there into, thats what they all like to a degree (or could, etc) Which of course nothing wrong with that, like mentioned its totally a product of our age and culture. Even artist in the 1950s drew because what they liked as children, etc, etc, etc.

You’ll find in some cases it’s also a maturity thing (not in a negative way, like anyone is better than anyone, but more of a natural way) but hopefully as the artist grows older he will find himself exploring more than a borrowed video game culture. (This is a theory of mine, and it sounds confusing but I’ll use this little growth chart)

This could be how a comic maker would grow, totally random (not in all cases duh, you know what im talking about)

Into video games ->  Japanese culture -> Japanese literature -> literature, etc, etc

Now that doesn't nesscairly mean he will never draw video game stuff, but hopefully it will be a little more then just typical video game / anime comic, because now instead of just making comics that are like video games and anime; the artist will understand what is behinde and what makes the video game or anime great! The face vaule is gone for the artist and now is ready to explore other elements in the video game comic, rathier then just making a guy with a big sword jump around, he will hopefully realize he loves the sword guy because he is a "classic hero" etc, etc.

I don’t know if this is a fair assumption, I see this trend in musicians as well. Every kid who wants to be a rock and roll star, as they slowly educate and grow artistically they find out about different types of music and there stregenths and weaknesses. Ultimately studying other techniques and methods could provide the musician with more of a knowledge about music in general. Making him a rock legend. I’ll hear rock gods on tv talk about how genius classical music was and they will draw parallels between what music did in 1700’s and how it related to today and thier work, etc, etc.   

I think that’s why titles like Sharknife is so appealing and successful. Because in my eyes its not a straight RIP from video games, it just uses a familiar video game vernacular that we all enjoy. Rey combined with his graphic sense, his drawing skills, plus his video game storytelling he has created something of his own but familiar from our childhood at the same time.

Does any of this make sense? These aren’t really complete thoughts and totally loose theory, but something I’ve often thought about.
I think I'm dizzy.

Anyways, go to the bookstore and past the sea of tokyopop books, hopefully there will be a good graphic novel section where you can find yourself at home!  

PS. Keep up the good work, knowing what you want is half the battle.

[mr. robot]

you guys are cool.

i was originally thinking more about the overall tone and fervent pace that have become more and more apparent in modern comics, probably as a result of the internet and video games and all this instant gratification bullshit (yes i realize the hypocrisy here, as i just played an unhealthy amount of mario kart and am now posting on an internet forum). like, a lot of comics have very clear video game/anime influences, but probably the majority of modern comics have subconsciously adjusted their pacing to fit the fast, attention-deficit mindset of our video-game addicted Zombie Youth. Watch The Maltese Falcon, and then watch The Transporter. See? Actually that's a good idea, i think i am going to do that.

anyway.

i really like hearing people's opinions on this stuff

[Marley]

I have to say I am actually happy with the fact that manga and anime came into circulation in the states. The primary reason is because it has brought in comics that are told from a female's perspective. Not just for little girls either, but also for women.

For years its been nearly impossible to find comics on the american market that are told from a female perspective. The only one I can think of is Carla "Speed" McNeal with Finder http://www.lightspeedpress.com/index.php?module=Finder&func=pub&issue=38&page=72

I blame the underexposure of european comic geniuses like Moebius and Enki Bilal, and the overexposure of steroid pumped cheesecake comics in the 90s. It kind of alienated the female audience, but I feel the deluge of manga onto the market has actually brought girls back into comic shops and even got them to start drawing comics =P

Thats just my opinion though

Ladies and some men mayhaps should check out books by Erica Sakurazawa



Between the Sheets is a solid one. Its about two friends who live together. One character has an obsessive fixation on her roomate, and it leads to some very uncomfortable situations. You kind of experience her internal torture while she's watching this girl, whom she loves so much, fool around with heartbreakers and jerks. I wish I could explain it better, but I really enjoyed this book.

[Gauge]

YES! Mr. Robot, This is exactly the kind of debate and talk I want here!!!!

If I can add my two cents as well on the matter, I believe James has it right where it seems more comics on the web that have the video game, anime influenced rather then print (except tokyopop, “manga”, etc)

I believe a big part of this trend is easily understood once you realize who is making these types of comics. From my point of view, it seems those who enjoy making these comics that are video game / anime obsessed are exactly that. They make comics about video games and anime because that’s what the artist is in too and where he gets his or hers “dynamic” or main influence. Often these artist are very engaged with what I call “forum culture”. They feel very comfortable posting and making art for the web and around others who share the same passion. Which in fact carries its own stigma. Its sad but true that you’ll find more “younger” artist posting for critics then you would more older artist with books. So naturally I believe the younger artist will produce more of this kind of video game, anime roled comics because that’s what there into, thats what they all like to a degree (or could, etc) Which of course nothing wrong with that, like mentioned its totally a product of our age and culture. Even artist in the 1950s drew because what they liked as children, etc, etc, etc.

You’ll find in some cases it’s also a maturity thing (not in a negative way, like anyone is better than anyone, but more of a natural way) but hopefully as the artist grows older he will find himself exploring more than a borrowed video game culture. (This is a theory of mine, and it sounds confusing but I’ll use this little growth chart)

This could be how a comic maker would grow, totally random (not in all cases duh, you know what im talking about)

Into video games ->  Japanese culture -> Japanese literature -> literature, etc, etc

Now that doesn't nesscairly mean he will never draw video game stuff, but hopefully it will be a little more then just typical video game / anime comic, because now instead of just making comics that are like video games and anime; the artist will understand what is behinde and what makes the video game or anime great! The face vaule is gone for the artist and now is ready to explore other elements in the video game comic, rathier then just making a guy with a big sword jump around, he will hopefully realize he loves the sword guy because he is a "classic hero" etc, etc.

I agree

[A Bad Idea]

Excellent points all around, Elio. If there is proof to what your theory projects, they may be found on a certain Sheldon Vella, and we all know of the awesome he produces.

It's not so much a matter of shaking off the influence of everything you grow up on, it's a matter of running it through your YOU-filter and seeing what becomes of it. There's never a limit on how many ways you can tell a story, because everyone is different.

[King_Pong]

The Push Man is a compilation of short comics drawn by Yoshihiro Tatsumi in the late 60s.  They're simple, in art, and in narrative - but the stories are strong and poignant.  Prostitutes, hit men, and aborted fetuses appear in these comics It is a very interesting, easy to read book.


How To Keep Your Volkswagen Alive isn't a comic book. It is a repair manual that was first published in 1969, and contains some absolutely stunning illustrations and a couple short comics.  It has been probably been the biggest influence on my own style even though I have not read it in more than half a decade.  Probably not worth buying for anybody in here (unless you happen to own a VW) but if you see it on the shelf at the bookstore, or the library flip through it and take some time to absorb the excellent prints and drawings contained within (if you have a bit more time, John Muir's 1960's hippy writing style is pretty awesome too and worth reading).

[James]

AHA! i remember!

TINY GIANTS by NATE POWELL


its a compilation of short stories that nate powell did from 1998-2003. the main thing that caught my attention about this book is how well the artist can just radically switch his lines up mid comic, and have it still work. most of the stories all seem to have a living in the midwest slice of life feel mixed in with a subtle (sometimes almost non-existant) writing style, and for the most part they are all pretty dark. i HIGHLY recommend this book to people who have never really read a graphic novel, as it's a perfect starting point.

[mr. robot]

ooo yes, nate powell is really something. SECONDED!

[Anonymooo]

I actually disagree with the idea that many comics today have changed to suit the fast-paced "internet-generation" culture.  Yes, you still have your Witchblades and your Tomb Raiders and everything else that defines the early-'90s "art is everything" fixation that killed comics for a while, but it seems more and more to me that the writers are the new stars of comics.

Look at Brian K. Vaughan--Y: The Last Man tells the apocalypse story with a lot of heart and humor, and doesn't show society automatically dropping into barbarism, which is a refreshing change of pace.  Even the simple idea of Runaways made it a big hit for Marvel, and it actually has class in that it doesn't force it down your throat that this story is taking place in the standard/Earth-616/take your pick Marvel Universe.  If anyone's read Pride of Baghdad, I'd really like to know how it stands compared to his other work.

In addition to both of those titles, I strongly recommend Grant Morrison and Frank Quitely's WE3, which is a very unique artistic attempt at creating an "American manga," not in terms of the whole BESM thing, but in terms of pacing and presentation, not to mention that it does you a good turn as a reader by breaking your heart.

[jho]

WE3 is quite awesome.. kinda sad, but awesome.