Ignatius Weaver vs. Goth Girls

Ignatius Weaver vs. Goth Girls

50.3%
488 points
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49.7%
483 points
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Critiques & Comments
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Puzzlething
Artist
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457 comments
# 15   Posted: Feb 9 2014, 09:16 PM
Rob         -

          Dude, your pages are so small! You can totally submit larger pages that that, I feel like I'm seeing everything from far away.

          I already said a buncha stuff about the story to you in PM, but I wanted to talk a bit about Weaver's storyline. I really like that you wanna try to work on a character with a strong, personal story, but it feels like you actually lost sight of that here. He's supposed to be this driven, military dude searching for a lost family member, but then you have him standing around daydreaming about Raygun, and then joining a beauty contest for no reason. If you wanna tell one big story, you gotta stick to it dude! Your opponent actually wrote something that fits into your characters quest and world really well. Atomic paid close attention to your character's goals, the world and your influences, or even wrote Weaver's hardness of character into the story quite well.

          For some reason, after page 3 you stop letting your overlay texture show on your characters, and I think it really hurts the aesthetic. Actually, now that I look at it a little closer, it's just page 3 you let the texture show up on everything. It's also totally my favorite page. You can't have those realistic texture only show up in certain spots. When you do it on everything, it gives your "paper" an identity that affects the mood of the comic, but feels separate from the actual stuff in the world. When you have it appear selectively, it makes it look like you're trying to cover up your inability to render texture by using photoshop. It clashes badly, because the texture is photo-realistic, and your art style totally isn't.

     Your line-art is way stronger dude, you're totally being more confident with it. I think you took alot of previous criticism to heart, and you're definitely trying to improve. Don't feel bad just because something new is getting picked apart, that's just how it is. There's always something more you can do, another thing to improve. Comfort yourself in knowing that dudes totally think your lineart is strong enough in this comic that you don't need any help with it!

   Keep pushing yo!


Atomic           -

               I could never get sick of you :3

              Arrgh, pocky basically covered all the good stuff. I don't normally comment on peeps visual aesthetic, cause choices are just choices, they're not really wrong or right, but you could totally try letting more of your paper come through for your lights. I think it would've really suited the sort of dreamy, storybook kinda thing you were doing. For having such a whimsical and magical feel, watercolours are extremely unforgiving media, and you have to sorta know what you're gonna be doing on a page before you start. If you try to figure stuff out as your working you can end up locking yourself out of alot of range, and end up with a pretty dark page.

        A watercolour comic dude that I'm just super into right now is this guy ( http://man-arenas.tumblr.com/ ). I'm sorta afraid I already mentioned him in a comment before, but I'll totally do it again cause he's just heartbreakingly good.

        As always, it was a really well written story dude. I already said it, but I think you did an amazing job writing an Ignatius Weaver comic. I know that whenever I get a comic from someone who's been so attentive and careful to the story I'm trying to make, it's the most flattering and wonderful thing. And uggghhhh,  I just love watercolour. It totally makes me wanna do a trad comic, even though it scares a little bit now, it's been so long.

Minteh
Artist
icon
252 comments
# 14   Posted: Feb 3 2014, 10:49 PM
Rob: good on you for putting something up front to back with overlapping battles, you're definitely coming out of the gates running.  Most other people touched on some good points that I know you're already taking into consideration.  I'm gonna be a little nitpicky about page 3 though, when they go to shake hands, check your right/left vs front/back.  Alice extends her left hand, Nate extends his right.  By mirroring each others movements it's probably going to end up a weird handshake.  It took me out of the flow of your comic a little.  I was a little confused by the end of it as well, specifically by the hat eating the jacket.  It didn't seem to have any reason to do so other than quickly finishing the story off.

My challenge to you is to draw something shorter, between 3 and 6 pages, in the same amount of time.  if you can belt out something like this in two weeks, you'll give yourself a massive boon by planning and organizing a smaller pageset where you can check and double check and rework if necessary.  Give yourself breathing room, because this one felt a little bit like a run-on.

Fish: love love love the angle you went with here, really cleanly spun story.  I definitely miss Alice a little, but I love the way you've integrated Hannah with Nate's world. I think the critiquing I can think of has all been said, so I won't worry about saying it again.

      Edited Feb 3 2014,  10:51 PM by Minteh

Pennydox
Artist
icon
235 comments
# 13   Posted: Feb 3 2014, 03:57 PM
rob, i think the fact that people had a hard time discerning your story overpowered our attention to practically everything else in your comic. Regarding your linework, I have no comment on it. And also, if someone challenges your character, you don't always have to accept their challenge if you really can't think of anything.

As tip to make more interesting conflicts in stories, concentrate on your own character's weaknesses/strengths, and then your opponent's character's weakness/strengths, and put them in a situation where both of them have to REACT in the same environment (conflicts=story). What would happen? If you want to brainstorm, you can always pop in the deviantart chatroom, and talk to us about it.

RobThing
Artist
icon
84 comments
# 12   Posted: Feb 3 2014, 02:13 PM
So it's terribly obvious then, that I had quite a bit of trouble coming up with the story for this. Starting out I had a vague idea of what I wanted to do, but I should have waited until I had a more concrete story. Doing the writing is so much more difficult that I anticipated, and it's easy to get lost in focusing on the art side of things. Especially though since Nate is so much more subdued than the character types I usually work with.

Art wise, my main goal was to get better at the lineart, so that's what sucked up most of my focus, because I had a lot of comments on my previous battle, about my lines being too soft/light. I think I may have achieved this? Since I haven't noticed any negative notes so far stating otherwise  xD

Thank you everyone, for your crit  ^.^

A Bad Idea
Artist
icon
320 comments
# 11   Posted: Feb 3 2014, 01:05 PM
ROB'N'HOODLUM: Your colors are quite pretty to look at and your characters are well-drawn, but I feel like I'm lost in a bunch of empty space (empty prettily colored space) with the general lack of background detail. Your interior scenes consist mostly of just a curtain and a blank wall, but that space could have been occupied better by adding furniture and knick-knacks to really sell the "backstage" area a little better; tables, chairs, stepladders, extra lights, posters, costume racks, mannequins, etc. Occupying your interior shots gives a better sense of setting, and also helps the transition between your exterior scene (which is mostly yellow sky + mushrooms) and your interior, to really help show that the scene has changed.

As for the writing, I feel like the "point" of this story is a bit misguided. I get that Nate didn't really have any desire to be part of the contest and that he was just dragged in against his will, but I think his indifference to the whole situation works against you in making the story have any sort of importance; I feel less inclined to care about what happens because Nate himself doesn't seem to care. It might have helped if you could have maybe stated what the risks or rewards of entering the contest might have entailed; maybe he agrees to enter the contest because he's avoiding a less favorable alternate consequence, or maybe the prize is something he needs, but he enters half-heartedly anyway because he has no idea what he's doing. I also feel like a lot of time was spent on the "My clothes are doing weird shit" segment, and I feel that time could have been better used to build rising tension for Nate, but again his indifference to the situation just kills any possible tension for this plot point. I feel like a rising sense of panic and a strong, stubborn disbelief could have worked out here, something between" GUYS THERE IS SOMETHING SERIOUSLY WRONG HERE" and "CLOTHES DO NOT SHOOT FUCKING LASERS, I DON'T BELIEVE YOU", and it could have lead VERY well into Nate's coat turning on him (would that make it a "turncoat"? Hohohoho). The part where Nate apologizes to the coat, I feel, had the most actual weight; there was a real sense that Nate's sour attitude led to this consequence, and that he was making an effort to see things the Goth Girls' way. However, I also feel that the Goth Girls maybe needed a bit more interaction other than forcing Nate into this plot, maybe something that helps establish their moral position in the whole "I don't believe in clothes having feelings" ordeal. I like the part where the hat saves Nate despite him not caring for it, to really reel in the whole "Maybe I should be nice to my clothes" angle, since the coat going crazy already demonstrated a dire consequence of Nate not caring for it. Sadly, the ending didn't really tie the story together very well. Because we don't know the consequences of Nate possibly winning the contest, the "ironic victory by default" kinda loses its meaning. You might have maybe even run an ending where the audience is outraged at the destruction, and that Nate and the Goth Girls get disqualified and chased out, but that also would have required knowing what the contest's reward was, so that their disqualification would have also meant something. In the future, I recommend you plan out what your "story goal" is, what point you want to make clear or what developments you want to happen, and then plan around them. Also, you should probably get rid of those tiny little "omg" "wtf" side remarks; unless the point of the character is that they literally speak internet lingo or that your story literally takes place on the internet, those little things kind of sabotage your characters and pull me out of the setting.

NUCLEARTROUT: Short and sweet, just how I like it. The story was very well-paced, and there was a clear progression between the buildup, the turning point, and the climax, it all felt very relevant with each other and easy to follow. The vibrant colors worked really well for setting the Wonderland-esque setting. I do feel like a palette shift when Fake-Dorothy starts turning would have been really cool to really sell the sudden unsettling turn of the story, maybe even have some of the backdrop start withering away to reveal something awful. It could have strengthened Nate's rejection of Cheshire-Hannah if her 'world' was somewhere he absolutely did not want to stay in, although his decision to do so was already pretty clear. All in all this was a very well thought out comic, and I enjoyed your interpretation of your opponent's world setting.

Hobbittastic
Artist
icon
164 comments
# 10   Posted: Feb 3 2014, 12:33 PM
Rob: No idea what's going on in your comic. Like, I get WHAT they are doing, just no idea why. Story needs to have cause and effect and it seems like your effects are either down played too much or it's just not clear enough. I do like how it's colored; great job on that. Also with what everyone has said: you needed to write/draw your opponent better, especially Hannah.

AtomicFish: You already know about the paper so I won't even. I really enjoyed this comic. Your choice with Hannah's involvement and design is great; loved the twist. It seems like a good, creepy short story. First and Fourth pages are the strongest.

Pennydox
Artist
icon
235 comments
# 9   Posted: Feb 3 2014, 11:17 AM
Two non-defaulted, fully colored and completed comics. *thumbs up*

Rob: Before I start this critique, read and study your opponent's character's bio and read their comics before your battle, more than once.  
I know what's going on in the story, I think it's your execution that makes it tricky to feel any sort of emotion in your comics (also including last one). Work on figuring out how to express emotions not just by facial features, but by body language as well. Even the position of their eyeballs can give off a completely different feeling if it was pointing in another direction. Here's a challenge for you: create a comedy comic that's convincingly funny, or draw a wordless comic that makes perfect sense for your next battle. Also, try some new fonts. The textures in your comic don't seem suitable sometimes (maybe need a bigger library of them?). Don't abuse texture overlays unless you know what's happening. Looks like acid sometimes.  I have a feeling your font gives off the wrong vibe from the story too. Experiment with some here: www.fontsquirrel.com

AtomicFish: I am guessing you used some really cheap or thin paper to do this and scanned it in. Congratulations on finding a sweet ass pen that doesn't smudge the paint, I'd like to know what you used for the black. On the other hand, some of the lines in the black seem a little too thin, probably wanna use a thicker width next time. I'm sure someone is gonna tell you the paper is wrinkly. As a note, never try and iron it out, I heard someone set their paper on fire doing it, but if you prove me wrong do tell. Anyhow, what you do is put it under some seriously heavy pressure for a day, and then when you scan it, put a book on top of your scanner and PRESS REALLY HARD while it scans, to make sure the paper doesn't move and the pressure relaxes some of those crinkles. Hope that helps for next time.
Your digital work is very fluid, this is an odd change for you. As recommendation, I think this would have looked amazing if you used a brush pen or felt tip pen to emphasize lines/line width.   It has a bit of a learning curve (basically learn not to grind your pen on the paper), but once you master it, with work like this, it'll be really fast inking too. If you don't know what a brush pen is, this is my recommendation: http://www.jetpens.com/Pentel-Pocket-Brush-Pen-for-Calligraphy/pd/1793 (the 'classic' for everyone)




      Edited Feb 3 2014,  03:46 PM by Pennydox

TINMAN
Artist
icon
140 comments
# 8   Posted: Feb 3 2014, 09:33 AM
Rob- Your colors strike me straight away, lovely texturing and subtle palette perfectly suited for you smooth lines. I like your style and your expressions dovetail with a more obscure story here, very Tim Hunter and I love it. For how sweet your flesh tones are in creating palpable forms, I think your bodily anatomy needs some attention to make them jive properly. I think more investment could be made in your cinematic camera as well since you have an excellent grasp on realistic form and beautiful color work. Perhaps its just the tight setting of the stage that hurts the flow but your storytelling eye could use some diversity to keep the angles more interesting. Also spend more time on your opponent- The Goth girls served as background noise.

Fishy- Really lovely to see you utilising watercolours now- it works well in tandem with your charming and cute style! You palette is nice and subdued and only suffers for the quality of the paper warping, keep experimenting and maybe spring for some better materials. You've got strong writing as always here even if it feels like a sharp and creepy turn, and you layouts are interesting as well. The curved panels lend a nice dreamy feel but those sharp triangular panels hurt your flow- altogether I await more of this type of work from you.

RobThing
Artist
icon
84 comments
# 7   Posted: Feb 3 2014, 08:40 AM
OH MY GOD FISH YOU MADE HIM SO EVIL  xDD
he hit her and made fun of her and totally abandoned her and WHAT set her book on fiiiiire omggg what an asshole
And making Hannah the cheshire cat? DAMN. I LOVE the cheshire cat  <33 That little half-turn on page three "Brother?" Such a great panel  *_*

Also. I think it's super cool how we mind-melded for a minute there and both had a dorothy-that-wasnt-dorothy-that-looked-like-alice   o___o

SIDE NOTE: For anyone curious, "Tu caper tibi ore respirare ore" is latin and roughly translates to 'You breathe with the mouth of a goat'. Yay for supernatural references.

      Edited Feb 3 2014,  08:46 AM by RobThing

RobThing
Artist
icon
84 comments
# 6   Posted: Jan 19 2014, 06:10 PM
Mintley
Quote

Of course they will be   ^.^

Minteh
Artist
icon
252 comments
# 5   Posted: Jan 19 2014, 05:48 PM
Just don't bite off more than you can chew!  I hope to see both of your currently drawing comics submitted in full!

RobThing
Artist
icon
84 comments
# 4   Posted: Jan 19 2014, 05:16 PM
:D  I am so excited. This one is going to be so much more fucked up than my Versus Raygun   *_*

Kozispoon
Approval Committee
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1046 comments
# 3   Posted: Jan 19 2014, 03:14 PM
WHAAAAAAAAT. YES!

and no, never sick of more battles, Fish. More MOAR!!

Sabulive
Artist
icon
131 comments
# 2   Posted: Jan 19 2014, 02:58 PM
Look at you Rob! 4 for you!

I hope we see some awesome stuff!

Atomicfish
Artist
icon
116 comments
# 1   Posted: Jan 19 2014, 02:53 PM
The possibilities are endless!
Ya'll must be sick of me by now. :p

      Edited Jan 19 2014,  03:12 PM by Atomicfish

Comic Details -

 
Drawing Time: 2 weeks
Ended: Feb 9th, 2014
Votes Cast: 25
Page Views: 821
Winner: RobThing
 

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