Mother of mercy gentelmen...cant we all just get along.....*runs out his room crying*

ow...

I got to read Moo\'s fight after the adjustments, and though I agree the text was visually too much to LOOK at, to read it didn\'t feel overwhelming.  I like your style Moo, I think your inkwork is awesome and though there are areas (that have been mentioned) where you could stand to improve, I think Moo is a pretty fun character, I look forward to fighting him.

Phil - I\'m not sure what you\'re wanting to hear, but honestly I didn\'t really like this fight.  Your backgrounds are just steller, and I like that you shaded it even in your short amount of time, but I\'m starting to find your style a little unnappealing when applied to certain characters.  Moo looks allright, though the way you drew his head is oddly smushed.  Mize, a fairly \'feminine\' looking character, just looks wierd in your style.  I\'m not trying to be too crtical, I\'m just trying to suggest that when it comes to chicks, or non-manly man men, you need to work on your representation of them.  Clothing folds is something else I notice, but I\'m suer you\'ve been told that before.  

I really admire your ability to draw the city, and to have interesting angles and shots, please don\'t think I\'m trying to be mean!  You\'re a great fighter, and even if your \'style\' might not be my fave (personal thing), I think you pulled off a pretty good fight for such short time.

PS:  The bigger pages.. MUCH BETTER.

hey Phil, I know this was rushed or whatever, so I give ya props for getting so much done. But next time work on the script a bit more. there were times you repeated strings of words in sentances so it was like a double sentence. You also seem to be getting RTV! syndrome... inserting a huge amount of swearing where it probably doesnt need to be or fit. Just seemed like the 2 of them started yelling FUCK and SHIT and FUCK a lot for no reason.

Great, after submiting a crap battle to prevent a default, I know have crap comments on it that don\'t relate to the fight in question. Thanks so much for helping me get rid of this stress I\'ve been in lately guys!

That we did.  We\'re now best friends, only that schmuck kept aiming for old women with glasses.  That sucked ass when he got viscous eyeball fluid all over me. >_>

Mooo and I settled the comment-fistfight on AIM, then proceeded to stab old people in the eyes.

Keep the comment train moving. =P

Kubo, chill.  I\'ll deal with this, so please, don\'t step in the middle.

Then if that\'s the case, that \"selective realism\" is something that everybody does, no matter what their work is.  Yes, he\'s a fantasy character in a fantasy story, but elements of realism are something people take into account with just about anything they do, whether it\'s the way I draw muscles or the way that Phill\'s character is an anthropomorphic cat.

Selective realism is bound to happen, no matter what it is, no matter what you do.  Once again with contradicting yourself--if fantastic things happen in comics all the time, shouldn\'t my perspective be whatever the hell I want it to be?

The answer is NO.  Because if I intend to make my perspective realistic, then I\'m also gonna strive to make other things realistic--something like, say, muscle mass.  Supersimple anime face?  Well, damn, selective realism again!  I\'m keeping that fantastic, because, once again, fantasy world that sometimes plays by real-world rules.  If it\'s a fantasy world, I as the creator can choose which elements to keep firmly grounded in reality, and which rules to bend and play with at my choosing.

I want him to look round, I want him to look smooth--that\'s my own choice as a creator.  I can choose to make him bulky and angular, but that would take away the feel I strive to give for my character.  Just because it doesn\'t please only you, doesn\'t mean I should take it into account. XD

On a final note, Webster publishes dictionaries and thesauruses.  Maybe you\'re thinking of the Encyclopedia Britannica?

There are fishmen, and sock monkeys and a little red rectangles on Void, anf you are complaining about how Mooo is not ripped? Get a life!GO get better at drawing comics or something and stop harrassing members!

Sensible in the sense of what ? He fights like a machine with flabby muscles sure, but you have him calling upon the \'Gods of 0wnage\' next to all that super-real-detailed UFC-Strongest-Man stuff. I\'d imagine that with the satirical aspect of Mooo\'s character that selective realism really shouldn\'t be an issue. You shouldn\'t have to go through drawings and say \"Okay, I want THAT to make sense but THAT shouldn\'t\", \"His muscles should not be toned like REAL LIFE WEIGHTLIFTERS/UFC CHAMPIONS, but his name should be MOOOOO\". He\'s a character in a FANTASY WORLD, no one is going to say \"OH ! OH ! HIS BICEP IS TWO INCHES TOO THICK TO BEND LIKE THAT\", fantastic things happen in comics ALL the time. Granted, there are fundamentals to follow that support your style, but it all comes down to how well the two (style and fundamentals) work TOGETHER. If he has a SUPERREALISTIC UFC/STRONGMANCONTEST BUILD, then why does he still have a supersimple anime face ? SELECTIVE REALISM STRIKES AGAIN.

My criticism stands that he looks flat and round when he should be tense and edged, because otherwise he looks like fluff when I perceive his character\'s image to DEMAND more dynamic. If want to ignore that and be encyclopedicly correct, then be my guest; you\'ll just have to ask Webster to add \'Gods of 0wnage\' into their next set of encyclopedias.

I\'m gonna try and keep things relatively SENSIBLE, even if I\'m \"just drawing comics.\"  If that was a blanket statement that applied to all measures of comic work, that\'d mean we wouldn\'t even have to try and improve our anatomical or perspective drawing. ^_^

I\'ll take every ounce of criticism I\'m given, but some things remain stylistic decisions, or are just plain done for a reason.

I still say he looks he has logs of lard for arms. We\'re drawing comics, not writing entries for Wikipedia. :\\

Then we\'ll also talk fighting. XD

Current UFC Light Heavyweight titleholder Chuck Liddell has almost no definition.  In fact, he was suspended for an entire tournament season for steroid use--not for gaining muscle, but for gaining definition.  He wanted to look scary, to have a six-pack and toned musculature.  One of the committee judges told him that he had two sledgehammers for fists--why\'d he need definition?

I don\'t like muscle definition on certain characters, I feel it obstructs their movement.  Mooo\'s \"smooth\" look is something I\'m keeping, as it also makes him seem a tiny bit unassuming, instead of this walking mountain of rippling flesh.

Yeah, but the toned muscles really add dynamic to the character. We\'re talking FIGHTING, not lifting weights. If I read a comic about lifting weights I could be content to see muscles like that (I\'d also have to be drugged and tied to a chair, because that would be the worst comic EVER), but the LEAST bit of definition would help me disbelieve that he\'s got tubs of jello for biceps. To be that realistic in detail about a character who\'s supposed to be a \"Champion of 0wnage\" kinda defeats itself, no ? =P

Ah, you must refresh to get the bigger-sized pics, that\'s weird. Very good job Mooo.

Phill\'s in four places in the last panel of the second-to-last page-- 1) slammed up against the bumper, 2) pushing through the cab, 3) bouncing into the bed, and 4) just his foot as he bounces off-panel.

As for Mooo\'s lack of definition, that\'s very easy to explain.  Take a look at the World\'s Strongest Man competitions.  Those guys, able to perform incredible feats of strength-lifting, have almost no definition, even during full flex.  They\'re lifting close to a standard ton, at times well over that--and it just looks like they have ENORMOUS FREAKIN\' ARMS.  Having incredibly cut musculature never really guarantees strength--bodybuilding to develop definition is very different from actual strength training.

But as for the anatomical inconsistencies, they\'re something I\'m just going to have to work on through lots and lots of practice.  Thanks for the help.

Mooo : A strong first submission, but there\'s some problems that are making me enjoy the fight a bit less. It\'s been said several times that this is too dialogue-heavy for a submission that\'s meant to be action-based, so I\'ll elaborate on it a bit. It\'s important to consider the pacing on comics in relation to what\'s ACTUALLY happening in the comic. It may just be still frames, but there IS timing to each panel that is important to keeping the flow consistant. Page 6 (where the flaw is most apparent) suffers from a condition I call \"Split-Second Monologue\", where the action in the page is moving TOO FAST for the dialogue your characters speak. Imagine how that scene would look if animated; that kick maneuver Mooo used should only take about less than three seconds, but in holding his foot up PREPARING to kick, he\'d be talking for maybe a MINUTE. While the action is fast-paced and dynamic, the dialogue slows it down to a snail-crawl, so it\'s APPEARS to go slower than it actually is.

Now to move onto other problems. Your anatomy is inconsistent throughout a lot of the more confusing scenes (Kura already pointed out the Leapfrog panel, but the inconsistent proportions also appear in awkward shots like the drop kick, the Kicking-Phill-Into-The-Truck panel, and the last lying-down panel). I also notice that Mooo, for the beefed-up slugger he is, has little muscle definition, so his arms seem more to be jelly-filled than hard-toned with muscle. Additionally, it\'s hard to tell what\'s actually happening in the Punching-Phill-Through-The-Truck panel; even if it was meant to be a panel of UTTER CHAOS AND DESTRUCTION, I should still have a good idea of what\'s going on (Is there supposed to be a multiple-image montage of Phill tearing through the truck ?). I also notice that while conceptually appealing, the super-perspective-about-to-kick panel has some wonky perspective. The figures in that panel are fine (Mooo, Phill, and the truck), but the rest of the street looks like it\'s tilted to an awkward angle.

You\'re off to a promising start, to be honest you\'ve surpassed my expectations. I look forward to facing you in the future.

Phill : You probably know most of what\'s wrong with your comic, so I\'ll be brief. Inconsintent/wonky faces, sloppy perspective, undynamic action panels, and you probably know the rest of the smorgasboard. I had a hard time pacing my reading between Mize\'s side comments and the actual action panels, so I can\'t really give you the upper hand for scripting. I do commend you for retaining that knack you have of nailing facial expressions to the button, that was pretty good for a rush-quality comic.

To Pi:  Mamoru has been unable do VOID stuff for a while, and thus Mize\'s story has been lagging behind a little.  So yes, Mize does indeed leave the Exiles and join the VCPD.  How this happens will be explained in due time.

Mooo\'s fight:  In terms of expressing pure action, this is indeed one of the best I\'ve seen in a while.  I actually was able to read the text, and I have to say it made the portion before the fight quite entertaining... though I could\'ve done without the expert\'s analysis that came when Mooo was suspended in the air, that really slowed down what should\'ve been a fast moment.  Most everything else has been said, I think.

I almost laughed out loud at the six page (fourth image)-- Phill and I were just talking about how 1337 RedBlood Phill would\'ve had to be to round up 10000 bounties!  

Phill\'s fight: I\'m not Mamoru, but from what I\'ve seen of Mize so far I think He talks a little too much here... that\'s beside the point though.  

We all have to do fights under pretty stressful circumstances now and again... I hope things turn out better next time time-wise.

I won\'t make any excuses for my short commings, but at the time of the deadline... I did have to work for most of the weeks, and work had to come first... I\'ll make sure that I don\'t produce crap like this ever again.

yeah, i thought phil coulda done better. I mean, compared to some of your other stuff, this obviously isn\'t your best and i\'m a little disappointed that this is all that we got after the extension, but it was a good read, nonetheless.

Moo, yours was good too, but I\'d watch the massive dialogue. I know it\'s important and all, but you tend to lose people, especially guys reading stuff like this on the net, cause there\'s always a bit too much to take in.

Decent battle, folks.

Thanks to Toast and Wei, the original files that were supposed to be uploaded have been put in--the actual files are pretty darn big, so folks shouldn\'t have any trouble actually reading the comic now.  Thanks, gentlemen.

Moo: good first outing.....I\'m gonna link you to a WebLetterer font that you should find handy. There is a looseness to your work that is appealing but you still need to fine tune it a bit. Many of your large panels appear too jumbled and busy...I would suggest more variation in line width

Phil: Not your best work....even after the extension. You obviously ran out of time and it severly affected your submisson

Bigger scans are definitely in order for my next battle.  I realize my anatomy\'s not perfect, and it\'s something I\'m working on every single day--thanks for all the feedback.

As for digital text, that\'s something I\'m going to be trying for my battle against Itami.  I\'ll try and work something out with cleaner, larger text--but I do love my blah-blah.  Part of why I love fightsports so much is the commentary, and that\'s just a personal style thing I intend to keep. ^_^

Hot damn, Phill, you made Mooo a hell of a lot more brutal than he actually is--but your rendition of him was pretty kickass all the same.  I\'m personally not a big fan of the dialogue, and how buff Mize ended up being--but it\' lookin\' good all the same.  Look forward to seeing how it\'s concluded in your Beyond Battle. ^_^

Okay, pretty much everything\'s been said, work on anatomy, better lettering on Anonymooo\'s part, etc.

Anonymooo, I know that lettering can take a while, but what I did read in your comic, I liked a lot. Maybe tone down the amount of text next time? You\'ve got some good writing skills, just make sure not to overdo it. I really like the foreshortening when Mooo\'s about to kick Phil\'s face in. Anatomy is something we all can work on, so start cracking the books.

Phil, I know it\'s definitely not your best work, but it did have some good points. I really don\'t like the way your draw small heads on big bodies, but Mize was just, excuse my language, absolutely terrible. Mize is supposed look like a skinny little girl, but you\'ve got him pretty butch. Then again, Mooo is supposed to be butch and there is a clear difference in size. The story was pretty good, but I thought Mize joined up with the Exiles? Why is he chummy with the VCPD? Just a thought. Hope you do better on your next piece, I\'m looking forward to it.

I feel like I\'m repeating everyone else here, but..

Mooo:  That text made my eyes hurt.  On the pages you double up, you should keep them the same sizes as the other pages, and double-up vertically, instead.  Just a suggestion, but it\'d be easier to read that way.  Other than that, you\'re fight was pretty nice.

Phlip:  Only thing I can point out is that some of it is pretty stiff.  I gave my votes to you, slighty.

Good fights on both ends.

mooo\'s fight: okay....you re-sized this WAY too much. i didn\'t even want to try and read half of the things, but some stuff in big font i caught here and there.....as far as i could tell the quality was really good. nice action and pretty entertaining pages. i was going to give you high points for quality, but sinse it was almost impossible to read most of it, i dropped those points a lot (i like being able to read the fights). for creativity....well, that was pretty low, too. because just fighting is not too creative (we all do the same thing, right?) maybe knowing what was being said in the bubbles would have made points on this higher...
entertainment got you the most points. thought i didn\'t know of any type of plot going on, the action kept me reading  :3

phill\'s fight: at first glance phill, i think everyone can tell this is not your best work. but i talk to you on aim every now and then and know you started over for whatever reason. so with what time you had left, i\'d say this is far better than any quick half-ass comic i could pull out of my butthole....but still....quality is kinda bleh. (i still envy you for drawing this up so quickly). some panels confused me a bit. had to look at them for a while....mainly what kept me going on your fight was only the story. not so great entertainment in the art department. i forgot already what scores i gave you...but i think...lowest was quality, and highest was entertainment.

nice job both of you! though both had their faults, i enjoyed looked at both fights  ;3

Story wise this seemed pretty even matched to me, both parties had their perks.

Mooo: I liked it all the way through. XD But all the while I was sitting on the edge of my chair, with my nose to the glass trying to read the tiny tiny dialogue. Some of it I actually couldn\'t read. I remember talking with you earlier in a chat and you commented about your pencils being a little cluttered, they are, just a bit. But for one - I can\'t talk, mine ain\'t perfect. And two, it still rocks.

Phill: Also, good story. I\'ll be lookin\' for the Beyond Battle. No one can say Phill\'s character isn\'t expressive. What I\'ve got to say is more of a nitpick, if even that. In the handful of pages the spectator is watching the fight through the lense, it might have been nifty if you\'d changed the color of the screen along with the numbers in the corner. I don\'t guess it matters what color (I\'d have chosen something green). I just think it would have added to it. ::Shrug:: Like I said, nitpick, not really important.

You\'re both probably working on anatomy and I doubt there\'s much left unsaid there from previous battles. So I\'d rather leave that alone. XD Mind you, I\'m winging it. I\'m still learning too, so feel free to ignore me. In any case, I liked em both.

only few things that strikes me

moo: uh.. I can\'t see your handwriting.. the scans are a bit too small sometimes. It hurts your entertainment factor quite badly. And some of the actions are confusing, like page 8, last panel, I almost think phil is smothered into pieces. I recommend lettering your dialogues with computer, OR rise up your contrast a little, OR make your comic size bigger. I seriously almost can\'t see your handwriting and it\'s gonna be bad for your upcoming battles.

Phil: Clear lines, nice usage of simple colors. But I kinda think your people and actions still looks kinda stiff... which is not good. Keep trying to add more fluidity to your actions ok. Also, try to draw more variety of human faces and bodies next time (moo and that one guy (or girl??) looks ALMOST similar in a flash, but MAYE that\'s just me!)

Keep it up!

Jeez guys you\'ve got waay too much text to read there.  In both your comics there almost wasnt a single frame without text.  The sheer amount of text to be read overshadows the artwork and takes attention away from the frame associated with it.  Mooo, it\'s already been said but your text is waay too small to be comfortably read.  Page 6 shows a considerable anatomy fuckup, on the leap frog frame where Moo doesn\'t seem to have a spine anymore.  Phil, the heads on your characters are waay too small for the collossal necks and arms you give them. The shot of on page one looks fine, but every other time the necks just seem a little odd.

Ugh, this has got to be my worst fight to date I feel a loss is unavoidable... Mooo you did swell on your fight, but broham... I\'ve got to be honest. Nobody wants to squint when they read a comic, make your text and pictures BIGGER! I do not like squinting at a computer screen, it gives me a massive headache! Other than that, you really need to work on your anatomy, perfect example on page 4, both of our characters look like they\'re at around 4 feet in height, that\'s not good.

But your inking is pretty kick ass so far, if you can fix up your anatomy and perportions you won\'t have any troubles winning. Keep it up or something?

Another extension?  Geeze louise.

Submitted over a week ago, Wulong. ^_^

ARG!! I have to wait a week to see this??? Why, Phil? WHY?!

RedBlood Phill has purchased a 1 week extention.  Mooo is still expected to submit on time.....

Like I keep saying, don\'t kill yourself over the battle.  Get what you can done--I\'m looking forward to the results.

Got 4 out of 9 or 10 done... might need an extention if worse comes to worse, but I\'ll make them all good I promise.

GO PHILL. kicks ass  >:3

good luck to the new guy~

I can\'t wait 7 more days~

Uploaded my pages... now to see what Phill turns out.

hmm, i like your style and your character moo so i cant wait to see how your first battle goes
phil, what do i need to say mang? Rock this battle! XD  

Whoop his ass seabass.